-------------------------------------- ICQ Messages Log For: 9822212 ACE788 Started on Fri Feb 05 01:04:29 1999 -------------------------------------- 2/3/99 9:10 PM ElectricTwangdoodle You're such a fucking hypocrite. Don't you think it irked me to go out in the first round of the World Title tournament when I had FOUR YEARS on Warren? The answer, is no. Why? Warren did better roleplay. Besides, wouldn't it be unfair to give someone a belt just because they've been in the league longer? In my opinion, Vizz and Love have EARNED their respective title reigns. If you can't see that, you've got some serious problems. 2/3/99 9:14 PM ElectricTwangdoodle But, now that I'm done ranting, if you're willing to LISTEN to me, and willing to trust me, I will tell you exactly what's wrong with your wrestlers, why they aren't winning, and what you can do to fix them. And considering how many times I've redesigned Eli... nobody knows how to make a wrestler work better then I do. 2/4/99 11:01 PM ACE788 You know, you thought that some people were good people and all...but you really find out what they're actually like when you point out the facts to them and they can't face the facts. Man...Chad actually thinks I'm wrong. But I'm right in one thing if nothing else...he screwed me over on purpose, and his attitude toward me now just proves it even more. 2/4/99 11:02 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Do you want to know where it is you went wrong? 2/4/99 11:03 PM ACE788 You know what I want to know? I want to know why Chad was such a jerk, that's what I want to really know. He made my guys lose on purpose because he thought that I complained too much. 2/4/99 11:04 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Scott, calm down. I will tell you why some things happened the way they did, and I will explain to you ALL of Chad's points in his reply to you... but you have to promise to let me talk, and let me FINISH, okay? 2/4/99 11:05 PM ACE788 Sure. But I still think that Chad was a jerk for not coming out and simply telling me that he was biased against me because he thought I complained too much. 2/4/99 11:07 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Ok. First, what he said about your roleplay being reactive? It DID seem a little reactive that Eliminator revealed his philosophy work when he was wrestling Preacher, Enforcer became the 'original' enforcer when he was five becaue he had previously said he was Enforcer before Arn Anderson. The TIMING of these statements made your RP sound like it was simply trying to one-up your opponent. 2/4/99 11:10 PM ACE788 Yeah, I know that, but that's not how it was in reality. That's not what I'm debating over. What I'm debating with Chad about is that whether or not my roleplay was reactive or a long running angle type thing (like the Sunshine or PLR thing) shouldn't matter in how the roleplay is judged. I believe that roleplay is roleplay...it should be judged on how well the person writes it, not on what type of roleplay it is. 2/4/99 11:11 PM ElectricTwangdoodle That's something that I won't get into with you, since it was ME who beat you, we're both obviously oppositely biased. Let me ask you about something Vizz said to you... did you send only ONE angle, like he said? 2/4/99 11:13 PM ACE788 Probably, but I don't remember what angles I sent in to HIM. I sent other angles in before Chad made him and Steve VPs and Chad always changed them so that they were really messed up for me. (Like when Eli Flair and Powers beat all four members of ES by themselves...get real here. That angle was supposed to be all four members of ES totally destroying Powers and Flair...the way it actually happpened would never be that way in real wrestling.) 2/4/99 11:15 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Example:Goldberg taking out all of nWo. But, Vizz wrote that card completely blind. He didn't have your angle, he didn't have MY angles, he wrote what he thought would be a natural progression. Also, I think he was using that to push the Flair/Powers vs. ES match. 2/4/99 11:17 PM ACE788 Well, nontheless, Flair and Powers arent' exactly the CSWA's version of Goldberg (that would be even more biased on the part of the execs). ES should have flattened both of them...I mean, it was four on one, and I specifically requested that if they weren't going to destroy Powers and Flair (due to a change in the angle) that the angle not be used at all, but they used it anyway. 2/4/99 11:17 PM ElectricTwangdoodle For that matter, Vizz was the #1 contender before he was in the front office. He was pushing this Sunshine thing so hard that NOBODY could ignore it. 2/4/99 11:18 PM ElectricTwangdoodle 4 on 2. But neither EZ nor myself are in the front office. 2/4/99 11:18 PM ACE788 I still don't see what was so great about the sunshine thing. 2/4/99 11:18 PM ACE788 Never said that you were in the front office. 2/4/99 11:20 PM ElectricTwangdoodle No offense, Scott... but you're the only one. That's the kind of roleplay that Chad likes best... a continuing storyline. Everyone agreed you were on the right track with the Enforcer/Merritt thing, but you broke the most important rule in fantasy wrestlign when you used someone's character without their permission. 2/4/99 11:23 PM ACE788 Well, I only did that because if I sent the angle in to have Merritt be attacked by Enforcer...Chad would have changed it and screwed it up like he always does, and I didn't want that to happen. Besides...Merritt is a "character", not a "wrestler", which means that he can be attacked by anyone at anytime. I let people do it all the time in my fed to other guys managers. If they aren't wrestlers, it's nothing to get bent out of shape about. 2/4/99 11:25 PM ElectricTwangdoodle See, you're applying YOUR rules. "Commisioner Merritt" is a character, just like Poison Ivy, just like Hot Scott. Chad wouldn't tolerate anyone doing that to ANY of your characters, just like HE won't. Chad judges roleplay on HIS standards. You judge on YOURS. Simply because you have different standards does not make him a poor judge of RP. Honestly? I think you're a good writer, it's when you start to "one-up" your competitiong that the 2/4/99 11:26 PM ElectricTwangdoodle "realplay" comes out and then, nobody has fun. 2/4/99 11:27 PM ACE788 Well, like I said in my final note in RP Central, the difference between Chad and me is also the reason why no one has ever left my league because they thought it wasn't being run correctly--but that's why I was leaving the CSWA. 2/4/99 11:28 PM ACE788 Oh, I had fun. Perhaps Chad or anyone else didn't, but I had fun. And I'll continue to have fun. I don't need Chad's CSWA to have fun. 2/4/99 11:28 PM ElectricTwangdoodle You also didn't earn any brownie points when you initially 'refused' to wrestle Powers and Flair in the tag match. That told Chad that you didn't give two shits about anyone else in the league, in my opinion. That, if you weren;t going to wrestle for the title belts, you didn't want to wrestle at all. THAT makes for a poor read, as well. 2/4/99 11:29 PM ACE788 Well, after a while, you get tired of getting crapped on by Chad and the others in management...but then again, you never had to deal with that, did you? 2/4/99 11:29 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Oh, I have. I got shit on for five month straight when I first joined. 2/4/99 11:30 PM ACE788 Well, I wasn't in the CSWA then, but if I was, I'd have bitched for you if I'd have seen them giving you crap. The bottom line was that I got tired of getting the short end of the stick after I spent nearly an hour every day in RP Central responding to and reading messages. 2/4/99 11:31 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Five months into my stint, nobody remembered that I had Poison Ivy. After dropping the IC belt, I was sucked into an angle that I didn't approve of and went on a two month losing streak (Back when there were 5-6 cards in the span of two months, but it looks like they're coming back) Both times, I wasn't happy. Both times, I thought I was getting screwed. But I worked with it and tried to incorporate it into my RP. I didn't bitch out the writers. 2/4/99 11:32 PM ACE788 Yeah, but you'd already had a belt. NONE of my guys ever got a belt, and before I quit I was in the league ten months, in RP Central for about an hour every day. I tried all sorts of ways of roleplaying to try to get titles and wins, but nothing ever worked. So finally, I just said piss on it. 2/4/99 11:33 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Here's the thing though.... You lost a good deal of title shots. Some were perfectly fair, others were a little less clear. When I lose a match I thought I should've won, I changed my RP a bit to see if something else might work better. You didn't do that. It didn't occur to you that if you did something a little different you might have more success? 2/4/99 11:34 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Scott, no offense, but you really didn't. You kept right on talking about how you were constantly screwed. I understand that that's exactly how you FEEL, but you can't let it filter down to the wrestlers. That's the reason you haven't won lately. That's the reason Chad has been at odds with you - because of the 'realplay.' 2/4/99 11:34 PM ACE788 I tried everything I could think of. I changed my RP methods and all about ten different times, and still got the same results. Personally, I don't give a crap about the CSWA anymore. If Chad and the rest want to run the show, fine. I'll let them. At least I run a fed that all of my members are satisfied with 99+% of the time. 2/4/99 11:35 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Chad and Steve have been doing this for 11 years now. They've seen their fair share of 'realplayers' and they've never had much tolerance for it. Maybe they should've told you sooner, but honestly? You never seemed to give off the impression that you'd take criticism well. But now I can at least dispel THAT. 2/4/99 11:35 PM ACE788 My wrestlers are extensions of different parts of me--and YES, before you ask, I have been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder (well, a mild case of it). 2/4/99 11:36 PM ACE788 That's because I don't like to be criticized. 2/4/99 11:37 PM ElectricTwangdoodle "If Chad and the rest want to run things" Well, it IS Chad's league. Nobody likes to be criticized, but Chad's too proud to admit that you were any good and that you were an asset. I'm not. I'm tryign to explain what exactly happened. 2/4/99 11:39 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Too many wrestlers was a problem, though. Eliminator was obviously your favorite, and it began to look as though the other three were simply there to back him up and further HIS career. That's not how real wrestling would work. In real wrestling, the rest of ES would have been pursuing their OWN goals, not waiting on Eliminator. Vizz told me he was pushing this Harders/Rap Man or Enforcer thing to try and get you to separate your characters a bit 2/4/99 11:39 PM ACE788 Hey, I can understand how Chad feels, but what I CAN'T understand is how he can manage to piss me or anyone else off enough that they'd rather quit the league after ten months of being there than stay and deal with him. 2/4/99 11:39 PM ElectricTwangdoodle You did a good deal of pissing him off as well, my friend. 2/4/99 11:40 PM ACE788 Hey, if stating my opinion pissed him off, he's must find it hard living in America, the land of the free, where free speech is a right. 2/4/99 11:42 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Stating your opinion didn't piss him off. The fact that you criticized how he runs the league pissed him off, the fact that you didn't see how anyone else is a good RPer pissed him off, the fact that, from an outside point of view, your whole issues are that ES hadn't won any belts. But you WERE up against some damn good RPers. 2/4/99 11:43 PM ACE788 Some of the RP was good, but I just can't understand how Radder and Vizzack were the top two men in the league. Eddy Love, I can see. Even you or Powers I can see being top men in the leauge. But how was Radder and Vizz's RP any better than mine or yours or anyone else's? 2/4/99 11:45 PM ElectricTwangdoodle My opinion on that matter, is that Vizz is THE best roleplayer in the CSWA, and at least Top 5 all time. Just to compare them to ES for a second, when you and I were 'realplaying' before SPT Memphis, you wrote about how ES is all different. You described your entire stable in the span of a paragraph. It's really hard to see depth in a character when you can describe SIX of them in the space of a paragraph. 2/4/99 11:47 PM ACE788 I only did that because I was overviewing them. Why was everybody so freaking focused on the fact that I described them in one paragraph? Have you all never heard of an overview? If I went into full details, I'd have been there all day. 2/4/99 11:47 PM ElectricTwangdoodle The whole point of RP is to be able to envision it happening. ES sometimes sounded like one person writing six characters. Vizzack's Sunshine story, his 'betrayal' angle, and the whole thing (although brief) with Dante Inferno, I could close my eyes and SEE it all happening. Every member of the CSWA would agree. Vizzack POURED character into his wrestler and valet, the same as Radder is doing now with his 'basketcase' RP. 2/4/99 11:49 PM ACE788 Mine seemed that way because I AM one person roleplaying all six of them. 2/4/99 11:49 PM ElectricTwangdoodle The difference is, and I think I just found the right words, is that it's impossible to see ES in any fashion other then their 'interview' faces. That makes them very one-dimensional. Vizz delved into Sunshine's past, into Vizzack's past, into fears, and in the MWC, even DREAMS. 2/4/99 11:50 PM ElectricTwangdoodle Maybe that's the problem. Maybe you've simply got too many wrestlers? Because it goes back to pretty much my only criticism of your RP... that all of your characters seem to run together, particularly Eliminator and Enforcer. 2/5/99 12:36 AM ElectricTwangdoodle That's another thing that caused your RP to lack... when it seemed (to me, at least) that one-upping your opponent wouldn't work, you simply ignored the entire RP, and continued as if it didn't happen. That doesn't make for a coherent story, and your sudden signing off when I was giving you some constructive criticism shows it. 2/5/99 12:39 AM ACE788 What do you mean my sudden logging off? I logged off when I had to do something that wasn't online...what do you expect me to do? And the reason why I simply ignored some RPs was because they were ridiculous. Some people made roleplays that I thought were not worth replying to, so I didn't reply to them. 2/5/99 12:41 AM ElectricTwangdoodle I can see this won't work... but you can't say I didn't try. 2/5/99 12:41 AM ACE788 Now what the heck are you talking about? 2/5/99 12:42 AM ElectricTwangdoodle I was trying to help you, trying to give you some advice on improving your stable, but you didn't seem to be that interested in listening. 2/5/99 12:43 AM ACE788 Listen: I quit the CSWA. I'm gone. Therefore, I don't need advice on how to improve my characters in that league. I don't participate in inferior leagues any longer...so I had to cut the leagues that were inferior because they were taking up too much of my time. Unfourtunatly, the CSWA was one of those inferior leagues that I cut. 2/5/99 12:44 AM ElectricTwangdoodle Fine. Don't say I didn't give it a shot. 2/5/99 12:45 AM ACE788 I still have no clue as to what you're talking about. 2/5/99 12:45 AM ElectricTwangdoodle Didn't think so. 2/5/99 12:45 AM ACE788 What are you talking about? You're starting to annoy me. 2/5/99 12:48 AM ElectricTwangdoodle I started this entire conversation to try and explain to you WHY Chad said certain things and why certain matches happened the way they did, so if you're leaving you might as well leave for the RIGHT reasons and not the ones you spoke of in your rant, but it's obvious to me that you're of the mind that nobody else can be right when it contradicts you, and you're not going to listen to what anyone else has to say. Ever. 2/5/99 12:50 AM ACE788 I listen very well to what others have to say. But most of what you have to say I don't agree with, and practically ALL of what Chad has to say I don't agree with. Maybe that's the thing: I'm the only person who thinks logically who was also a member of the CSWA. 2/5/99 12:51 AM ElectricTwangdoodle How exactly were you thinking logically? I'm dead serious... I want to hear your specific reasons on why you should've won the triangle match, the Greensboro match, the Tag match, and everything in between. 2/5/99 12:53 AM ACE788 My guys should have won simply because there is no logical reason why they shouldn't have. I was NEVER outroleplayed, and Chad said that roleplay is 95% of what he bases who wins on. But it never turned out that way. There is absolutely NO reason that Eliminator shouldn't have won the US Championship the first time he faced Powers in the tournament way back. 2/5/99 12:57 AM ElectricTwangdoodle US Tournament Finals:Didn't pay much attention to the RP since I wasn't in it, but it looked like EZ was doing pretty well with the whole Powers of Love thing and the Corporation thing. Everywhere else:You started the whole "Everyone is scared of ES" shit that didn't go over well, because YOU were the only person who believed it, and you NEVER tried to hype it with angles and such. Then, the whining started. Things (including the US Triangle 2/5/99 1:00 AM ElectricTwangdoodle US Triangle match would've gone a LOT differently if you had simply asked Chad or Steve, or Radder or Vizzack why you lost, and what you could do to improve. Instead, you whined about it, claimed that peopel were paid off, that your guys never gave up, reasoning that they "don't submit." But nobody likes a whiner.