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Fed Status

DBrunkGXW

Consigliere
Joined
Sep 11, 1997
Messages
4,815
Points
36
Age
48
Location
Katy, TX
There have been exactly two feedback posts and three people have signed up for Aggression 76. One of those, Stanton, was pre-booked into the three-way tag and technically didn't even have to sign in but did anyway. So really, two handlers have signed in.

If both of these situations don't improve, there will be no Aggression 76.

I took steps to get some people to take care of Aggression 75 behind the scenes because of my very busy last two months of 2013 and as it turned out, I ended up having to pull it together almost three months later.

This fed will not limp along like this. If the overall interest is this lacking, then we are most likely through and I will close up shop. I'll write a final show myself and we'll all say goodbye. It's up to the handlers to decide what they want, but I'm making some tough decisions soon.
 

RStrawsma

Strawbot
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,512
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Indiana
Well Dave, I'd personally not like to see that happen... but you're right in saying that it's not worth keeping this up if there aren't enough people getting involved. I can't speak for the other handlers, and I can't tell you why the activity in the federation has waned over the past few months (or the past year altogether, depending on how you look at it).

All I can really say is, I truly apologize for all the occasions in which I contributed to the card coming up late... maybe not so much this last one, but there have been at least a few times when I was holding things up because I just couldn't commit myself to getting a main event in. I feel if I hadn't dragged my ass so much, less time would have been lost between cards, and a few more handlers would have probably stuck around.

Really, over the past couple years, the size of our pool of players has shrunk... longtime players have bowed out of the game as it befits their lives, and we haven't really succeeded in keeping the newer handlers around. I feel like that might have something to do with it too. Tag-action is down to one team once again... felt like the King of the Cage failed in it's attempt to bolster that division. I had intentions of sending in an angle on this card reintroducing the Crimson Calling with a new tag partner, mainly in an effort to put some bodies in there and make it relevant again. But then again, that's just me padding the card with more of my characters... the same as putting Olvir and Magnus into the battle royal, because it didn't seem like enough people were going to opt in to make a legit battle royal.

I feel maybe this is a time when the federation as a whole needs to be given an appraisal... because I agree that there's no point in just phoning it in from card to card if our hearts are only half into it. My personal feeling, with the cards being somewhat spread out, is that maybe we need to abandon the regular-show concept with Aggression altogether... stick to just seasonal Pay Per Views and big super-events, maybe six shows a year. Understandably, though, this would pretty much be also nixing the entire concept of a storyline arc building up over a series of shows to a blowoff Pay Per View; every show would seem more like a one-and-done thing.

I'm not sure how everybody else feels like that... but my observations lately seem to tell me that what makes Empire Pro appealing compared to other federations is that this fed provides the most stripped down and straightforward competitive roleplaying atmosphere. So, why stretch it out with all of the angles and segs and build-up? Why not cut out all the over-arching storylines and just give the people what they've been waiting six months to really see? Impulse vs. The First, for the World Title... or Rezin vs. MJ2 for the Television Title. Winner takes all. Two months later, next man up.

Personally speaking, I'm a proponent of storylines and all that crap... but if feels like with the current circumstances, people lose interest waiting for the next card to come in so they can write out the next chapter in their character's angle. A lot happens over time... lives change, circumstances change, and people have to quit the hobby, for whatever reasons. My honest feeling is that rather than adapt our lives to the game, we adapt the game to our lives. Keep it something that people can check in on occasionally, but don't have the time to check the board every day for an update.

Ultimately, Dave, the prime reason why I've been a part of this federation for many years -- and also a reason why I've always come back every time I left -- is because you are one of the most fair-minded and practical handlers I've ever worked with, and while I may not agree on your every decision, I respect your opinion and honor your judgment. So however you make the call, I ain't going to throw up any complaints. But I'm owning up to my end of the problem and offering solutions, and publicly putting my honest opinions out there for anybody to see and comment on. I leave it to everyone else and how they feel on the situation to convince you of the best choice of action.
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
2,073
Points
36
Age
40
Location
The Silk Road
Jarret Aubry, is that you?

Kidding! Just want to state that EPW has been a great league for a lot of years, and I know the ebbs and flows of this hobby can be tough, but I would hate to see the place close during a lull. It wasn't that long ago that this place was whistling - literally, I saw Ryan Strawsma whistling. Some handlers might be in hibernation. Perhaps this post will bring them out and we can get back to the volume and consistency that EPW has been known for.
 

The Great Eye

I came to cut you up
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
1,337
Points
0
I just got a mail from Pete that CSWA was in a rut also. I think everyone's sort of out of it right now. I mean I know in the past while PRIME went down, the legendary VWF closed up shop. EPW has been a staple on these forums for a good while and I'd hate to see it leave. I don't know that there is an easy fix out there. I think it mostly requires having a base of talent from the handlers, and right now I don't know how many of them are out there, maybe we should expand out to the reaches of the internet and do a recruitment drive to see who all can be brought in. The people are out there and on these forums also, getting them interested and motivated is the key.
 

EpyonMarx

New member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
1,004
Points
0
Location
Nottingham, England
Website
www.karl-brown.co.uk
Firstly, yes, I am still alive.

In my opinion, there are two things that are causing the slump. These are just my opinion so I'm happy to be corrected if anyone disagrees!

As has been mentioned, the length of time it takes to get a card up is massive. In 2013 there were 5 shows posted. While I know everyone wants to read a good quality show and feel their effort in RPing was worth it, a show every 10 weeks or so is really sapping. It's difficult to plan your time when you don't know when the next card's happening, and it makes it really difficult to come up with a storyline or ark - I had one I was trying with Otaku at one time but between two cards so much time had elapsed I'd actually forgotten what it was!

I know match writing can be a challenge sometimes, especially when you want to write your best and I have been guilty of delaying cards a few times (or more than a few!) but you don't need an epic match on a regular TV show. I try to limit TV matches I write to about 8-15 minutes of TV time, or about 1500 to 3000 words. That, I feel, is a good length for the average TV match, with 8 to 40 minutes for a Pay Per View - and only one or two matches on the card need to be above 20 minutes TV time. Writing long matches takes longer.

Next, it does feel like it's taking longer between the thread asking if people are IN or OUT being posted and the show's RP threads being put up. October wasn't the first time when I posted that I was in and then had things turn up over here that kept me limited in the RP period when it finally started. Longer than a week for a thread asking if people are in or out just opens up the possibility of other things coming up for people that mean they don't have the time they thought they had; maybe giving people 3 to 5 days to sign in for a card and on the final day the card threads go up would help? That and shorter turnarounds on cards would give the place more energy.
 

RStrawsma

Strawbot
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,512
Points
36
Age
40
Location
Indiana
Jarret Aubry, is that you?

Funny you mention that... the situation kinda reminds me of what ultimately led me to lose interest in A1E. Not so much the cards were taking longer to put up, but it just felt like everything was moving from one pre-booked PPV cycle to the next. So every show between the Pay Per View events, it felt like handlers were more or less going through the motions... posting last minute single RPs just to avoid no-showing, but not really caring whether they won or lost the match, since it was all leading up to the blow-off several shows down the line. The competitive drive just seemed to get sucked out... and with more and more layovers between results that nobody really had the time or interest to read through, overall participation just seemed to wither off and die.

That's not the reason why A1E went under; the real answer to that, as far as I know, is because Strawsma's an asshole who can't finish his matches or pay for his internet (still feeling really guilty about that, to be honest...). I'm just using that as a case study to our current state of the fed. Does anybody really want to wait two months just to see their character featured in a brief backstage segment, and then wait another two before they can see the next step in the angle?

Under certain circumstances, that pre-booked angle formula really works well in telling huge story arcs... it definitely had an affect on some of EPW's best epics. But when cards don't come out frequently, story threads get lost over time. Like, Stalker's mysterious return at the end of one Aggression... and his mysterious disappearance without ever being mentioned again almost as soon as the next card.

I just got a mail from Pete that CSWA was in a rut also. I think everyone's sort of out of it right now. I mean I know in the past while PRIME went down, the legendary VWF closed up shop. EPW has been a staple on these forums for a good while and I'd hate to see it leave. I don't know that there is an easy fix out there. I think it mostly requires having a base of talent from the handlers, and right now I don't know how many of them are out there, maybe we should expand out to the reaches of the internet and do a recruitment drive to see who all can be brought in. The people are out there and on these forums also, getting them interested and motivated is the key.

Could be the solution we need. Another thing to consider besides finding new handlers would also be finding a way to retain them. We've had a bevy of really good additions to the federation over the past couple years it seems -- Boogie Smallz, Teddy Alexander, Dirk Dickwood Presents, Rich Mahogany... I don't know all the reasons why many of those guys felt the need to bow out when they did, but it felt in many cases, a void was left in their stead, and we had to scramble for ways to fill it.

As has been mentioned, the length of time it takes to get a card up is massive. In 2013 there were 5 shows posted. While I know everyone wants to read a good quality show and feel their effort in RPing was worth it, a show every 10 weeks or so is really sapping. It's difficult to plan your time when you don't know when the next card's happening, and it makes it really difficult to come up with a storyline or ark - I had one I was trying with Otaku at one time but between two cards so much time had elapsed I'd actually forgotten what it was!

I know match writing can be a challenge sometimes, especially when you want to write your best and I have been guilty of delaying cards a few times (or more than a few!) but you don't need an epic match on a regular TV show. I try to limit TV matches I write to about 8-15 minutes of TV time, or about 1500 to 3000 words. That, I feel, is a good length for the average TV match, with 8 to 40 minutes for a Pay Per View - and only one or two matches on the card need to be above 20 minutes TV time. Writing long matches takes longer.

This has been a longstanding problem of mine that I've been taking steps to fix. Personally though, I never felt the length of matches kept me from getting them in sooner. The longer matches usually mean I simply spend a couple more hours out of the day to hammer out the extra few pages... doesn't really affect a layover lasting weeks. My real problem is just finding the motivation to block out those five or six hours out of a day and getting the thing written when it needs to be written.

I realize that just makes me look like a bigger asshole by basically admitting I'm lazy, but I gotta be honest about that in order to illustrate my stance. I pride myself on my work, and I feel if I had to sacrifice storytelling to get a match out sooner, then honestly, I'd rather not write matches. If all we're really expecting is just two guys trading moves until one of them finally wins out, then what's the point of writing them out? Why not short-form everything and leave commentary feedback to tell the story?

Next, it does feel like it's taking longer between the thread asking if people are IN or OUT being posted and the show's RP threads being put up. October wasn't the first time when I posted that I was in and then had things turn up over here that kept me limited in the RP period when it finally started. Longer than a week for a thread asking if people are in or out just opens up the possibility of other things coming up for people that mean they don't have the time they thought they had; maybe giving people 3 to 5 days to sign in for a card and on the final day the card threads go up would help? That and shorter turnarounds on cards would give the place more energy.

I feel you on that... although I'd worry about people being away for a while, then coming back to miss the In/Out Thread. Maybe people who are late can still be added to the card later or during the RP period if they choose... although they're pretty much at the whims of last-minute booking magic. That would also give the players who frequent the fed and sign-up in that 3-5 day window the added incentive of having a longer RP period and being featured higher up on the card. So, not opposed to that idea at all.
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
2,073
Points
36
Age
40
Location
The Silk Road
Well, once Brunk starts posting these on a weekly basis and begins berating us as worthless pieces of shit, his transformation into Jarret will be complete. But we really don't get these notes in EPW much, so I think this is a good wake up call.
 

DBrunkGXW

Consigliere
Joined
Sep 11, 1997
Messages
4,815
Points
36
Age
48
Location
Katy, TX
I'm really just trolling you guys.

I sorta figured activity would pick up if I swung a good kick to the fed's collective backsides.

Close the fed? Please.

Newbs.

Threads go up this afternoon.
 

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