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The ON/OFF Camera Discussion

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LQJT86C

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I think "outing" a narrative RP for taking place off-camera is breaking 4th wall, but then again...if I refer to things that happen in your narrative, and you respond that I "wasn't supposed to see it", you're now the one breaking 4th wall.

Addressing the descriptive narrative itself should be off-limits - that is, shooting on each other in parentheses, like Rocko Daymon did to Impulse forever ago. But the way I see it, if you describe an action scene involving your character, and that character has dialogue, it's fair game. Don't want people to respond? Don't write it. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't respond to? Write what you're going to write, and I'll decide how my character reacts. My personal feeling is that many people write "off-camera" so they can avoid being mocked for writing melodramatic poop.

My biggest problem with flicking the invisible narrative switch, is that 99.99% of the time, these characters are the same person off-camera as they are on-camera. Does that mean there's no kayfabe in e-wrestling? Castor Strife is really Castor Strife? Mike Randalls really lives in the desert subsisting off of acai juice and scorpion meat? I'm waiting for the narrative writer who, y'know, follows the f*cking rules of logic and has his character grab a beer with mine, complaining that his wife hates the schedule and how he doesn't want to do a job in his hometown. But you wouldn't write that, because it's boring as hell, breaks kayfabe, and goes back to the reason why we write on-camera personalities in the first place. It's still wrestling, like it or not.

Narrative roleplays are great. I've written them before, lots of people have. Narrative or script roleplays that happen "off-camera" are f*cking lame, always have been, and always will be. There is no logical justification for it, unless the organization is funding HBO mini-series type shows where your character's backstory is showcased in an admittedly fictional manner, for the purposes of promotion...and is agreed that such material won't be brought up in promos. That's how I justified PRIME "in-character", though I'm sure almost nobody else views it that way.

How about this for a new rule: if my character can't see it, neither can the judges. So in addition to your two roleplays that people can see, you have an unlimited number of invisible narrative pieces to expand on your character's love life and possible knowledge of MS-13 initiation-related murders. And if I want to make fun of it, I have to do it as myself, not as my character.

Everybody wins!
 

BMorris

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I've done both narrative RPs and trash-talking RPs before. What it comes down to is this: If you bring something up in an RP that you intend to be relevant to presenting, developing or otherwise adding to your character, for the purposes of the Ultratitle tournament, it's fair game for your opponent to bring it up in response.

So, if it's not relevant to what you are trying to accomplish, don't bring it up. Simple as that.

Now, if somebody who does the trash-talking RPs goes along the lines of "narrative stuff is so stupid," then I would be inclined to deduct points because trash-talking should be focusing on WHAT was presented, not HOW it was presented.

Example: Wrestler A is written in narrative about how he can't decide what color tights to wear. Wrestler B written in trash talk should certainly poke fun at this decision making, but if Wrestler A writes it as "I did this and that" then Wrestler B should refrain from "gee, write in the first person too much?"

In other words, stick to what is being presented for character development, not to the presentation.

And if you find what's being presented isn't believable -- there are ways to trash talk without getting personal about it.

(Note: I'm not a judge, so don't take anything I say to represent what a judge would say.)
 

DBrunkGXW

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Regardless of all the subjectivity...

Judge's Notes on Zero vs. Blaine Hollywood will provide plenty of insight.

I don't think so at all, since I think regardless of style, the judges we have, knowing what I know of them, know how to tell a sh!t promo from a good one, whether it's narrative or trash talk or somewhere in between. That match isn't gonna be some sort of standard mark on what to expect from narrative vs. trash talk.

That's goofy nonsense.
 

The Great Eye

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I think what's more important here is that Zero didn't use a fadein or anything, and didn't even talk in the promo, what is Blaine allowed to go against, Zero shaving? Zero's thoughts? How did he hear those thoughts, was Morgan Freeman telling us them? This is why to me everything you write is seen by everyone, I hate the idea of having to figure out what line I can or can not cross when replying to somebody.
 

DBrunkGXW

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I really just think this entire topic is being blown out of proportion.

I mean, do we have a bunch of rookies here or something? I don't even get this. If it's "off camera" and you want to address it, address it creatively. It's like someone said before, refer to it being in the dirt sheets or something, refer to hearing a rumor. This is the digital age, refer to someone recording it on their cell phone and uploading it to Youtube. Whatever. Just be creative and don't be overly obvious. Be clever.

Better yet, worry about yourself and get yourself over instead of relying on responding to someone to get yourself over. If you trash talk and do it well, you should be able to trash talk no matter the situation. Do you NEED to respond to the "off camera" stuff to effectively reply?

Be smart, bring the A game of whatever your A game is, whether it be creatively setting a scene and weaving an imagine into our minds with your words, or running your mouth until your opponent wants to cry. Whatever it is, do it as well as you can.

And above all, and the only thing that REALLY, as a judge, matters to me, MAKE IT ABOUT ULTRATITLE.

Keep it simple, guys.

To me, it sucks not to get anything to work with, but who cares? I'll just run you down anyway, talk about my goals and what I wanna do, and call your mother a whore. Not getting anything to work with shouldn't hurt a talented roleplayer.
 

The Great Eye

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I'd reply with "Woah" but it's to short for the character count requirement.
 

DBrunkGXW

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If your opponent gives you nothing to work with, what do you do?

WHAT DO YOU DO?
 

User Poets

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I was really referring (and I think Katz was, too) to the fact that Bloxham is heavy narrative and JN is heavy trash talk, they're probably the farthest away from each other on THAT scale as you can get, so if you want to see how to RP against the opposite style (and to do it WITH style), look at that thread.
 

DBrunkGXW

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I was really referring (and I think Katz was, too) to the fact that Bloxham is heavy narrative and JN is heavy trash talk, they're probably the farthest away from each other on THAT scale as you can get, so if you want to see how to RP against the opposite style (and to do it WITH style), look at that thread.

I just think, we laid all of this out in the podcast, man. I'm not gonna rehash what we're looking for every round. People heard what we want, what we want them to address, etc. I don't any reason for any halfway intelligent person to be confused right now.
 

blackshire

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That... MAY be possible. However, it's also your most endearing quality. Oddly enough.

*bats his eyes*
 

GreggG

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**** narrative style.

I hate it. I really do.

I envision like we're watching this for television. If you can't do character development and convey a character's emotions through dialogue and scene descriptions, than you shouldn't be in FW. Go write a Live Journal page in character.

We're roleplaying wrestlers. Everything you write should go to advancing a storyline to a match. ESPECIALLY in a tournament like this. Two guys are battling it out. Give the competition something to work with.

In Zero's case -- why the hell couldn't that dude write up that whole thing in a way for JN to respond with Blaine? It's lazy. I could write a running inner monologue of my character's thoughts all day long. But it's not fun or interesting.

Write wrestling characters. Don't write fan fiction.
 

GreggG

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And if you write it online, it's intended for public use, especially in a head-to-head battle situation.

If you don't put "Fade-in" or anything, I'm assuming it's some cinematic voice-over thing. And I will rip that apart.
 

blackshire

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I'm not convinced everyone "envisions" it as you do, or that they should. Which is what makes this "hobby" interesting.

If everyone approached this the same way it would be extremely boring. I *personally* see it as the opposite of lazy. It's all in the approach.

**** narrative style.

I hate it. I really do.

I envision like we're watching this for television. If you can't do character development and convey a character's emotions through dialogue and scene descriptions, than you shouldn't be in FW. Go write a Live Journal page in character.

We're roleplaying wrestlers. Everything you write should go to advancing a storyline to a match. ESPECIALLY in a tournament like this. Two guys are battling it out. Give the competition something to work with.

In Zero's case -- why the hell couldn't that dude write up that whole thing in a way for JN to respond with Blaine? It's lazy. I could write a running inner monologue of my character's thoughts all day long. But it's not fun or interesting.

Write wrestling characters. Don't write fan fiction.
 
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