Angle Feds Need a Kick In The Arse...

[Zezu]

angle feds and the handlers who play in them have been in decline for a while.

I don't know why this is nor is this a topic on how we can SAVE ANGLE FEDS because quite frankly they don't need saved. What they do need though is a core base of handlers who actually want to be in them, and thats where we might be spread a little thin.

you can probably count the amount of angle feds right now on one hand... and you can probably count the number of feds who aren't struggling on... well, no hands because at the moment we all seem to be struggling.

LoC is in the middle of a huge change but I've no idea when they are coming back.

fWo has grinded to a halt because Travis is awol and hasn't left anyone the keys.

nbW I've no idea when their last show was.

ACW is going back to some sort of normality but thats not been easy to do at ALL.

So yeah, we need a serious kick in the arse right now because quite frankly angle feds are gonna be so far under the radar soon that our handler base is gonna be a small number of guys handling in two feds and doing more or less nothing.

I recently made a small schedule for 2010 for ACW, and I've pencilled in a PPV which will pit ACW against either fWo or LoC. We need something like that to give the angle feds a jump. We need to start working together and try and not get handlers who are in 1-2-3 feds at the one time.

I'll admit I don't understand the actual depth of roleplaying against angle. I've always been in angle and don't really know any other way... but I just hate seeing it in this kind of state.

We need to act.

(cue two people replying to this...aye)

 

[PaulNJ21]

Like anything, you eventually need to bring in younger, fresh people with energy to bring life to things who eventually down the road begin running leagues of their own.

 

[JLevinson]

I don't know any of the leagues you're talking about, nor do I know what the difference between an "angle fed" and an "RP fed" is, but it seems like things in FWC are going pretty smoothly right now.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

I never liked angle feds in the sense you're describing (I think) and I've been pretty vocal about that.

I'm assuming you refer to "narrative" or descriptive writing as the way shows are planned and presented as opposed to the more standard style on FWC of presenting shows as a television show and using roleplay thread "battles" to determine winners, to push storylines and in general encourage handler interaction through their characters.

I can only tell you my own perspective.

I think "angle feds" in this context lose members or their members lose interest because they tend to be fans of writing the fiction of the show/fed more than they are fans of wrestling.

For me, I got into e-fedding because I was a fan of wrestling and because as a kid at the time I thought a fantasy wrestling deal sounded fun. I've remained a fan of wrestling, whether the televised product has gone up or down because it's the wrestling that I was a fan of from the very beginning. My writing has gotten infinitely better over the years, but I've never been interested in a writing contest.

I think the type of writer who is drawn to angle feds are writers and fans of writing first probably, and wrestling fans second. So, they are drawn from e-fedding toward other pursuits more in line with their interest.

Some handlers have a foot in both worlds. The one person I can speak about that I know fairly well is Pete Russo, who has been a player in both traditional RP feds and in the narrative angle fed world. He also is a writer and is writing or has written an actual book.

I don't plan to ever write a book. I'm not into writing like that. A challenge? Maybe it would be. But mostly, I'm just a wrestling guy. I like it. This remains a fun way of projecting through my fed how I would want a real wrestling company to operate. That's about it.

Paul is right though. You'll have to find new blood somewhere. I just think that the nature of the beast with the angle fed world is that the writers move on to other things more often because they intend to grow as writers and BE writers moreso than the majority of the FWC crowd. We just play because it's a game and it's fun. It's easier to rationalize at the age of 34 that I do this because it's fun when I treat it that way. My wife rolls her eyes at me much less.

But hey, I'm just speaking for me.

 

[ShawnHartXXX]

As somebody who's participated in 3 of the angle feds you've spoken about, as well as gotten into it on the FW central side of things, I absolutely have a stake in this.. and I have to say, I think Paul has hit it on the head. Be it RP or angle, you need to have people that are fresh and new and looking to push the boundaries effort-wise and creatively. Some of us older guys have more going on these days, or are in multiple feds, or maybe just don't have the same interest level. You've got to have new people coming in and pushing the pace for themselves and getting the lazier people involved.

 

[LQJT86C]

Having problems c/p'ing my original thoughts into this thread. I'll edit this post later, damn it.

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

fWo has grinded to a halt because Travis is awol and hasn't left anyone the keys.

Good Lord, I hope nobody's actually SURPRISED by this.

 

[ShawnHartXXX]

A couple other things I've noticed in angle feds ----

*Alot of hubbub and worry about web site design, poser artists, and jiggy new cgi scripts, as opposed to worrying about the actual writing/wrestling. We need to remember that most of this stuff is just eye candy and should be secondary to the shows themselves. Never is the time that your fed should be halted by these things.

*Handlers with name characters getting ginormous pushes/titles, but never posting or writing much of anything. I know sometimes people get caught up in real life stuff and can't participate... and I realize there are those characters/handlers out there that have done really awesome stuff and everyone loves it, but if you're going through 5 and 6 show spans where your big angle/big name guys have written like... one or two segments total, feds need to be more flexible in switching up those angles/names.

 

[Chad]

Great to see all the responses so far, and especially the thought behind them given some of the responses I've seen in other communities.

I wonder if we might not be at a plateau just before another big "change." Much like the early 90s with stat-based vs. roleplay or 'real' vs. 'generated.' I think the NFW is a great example -- Katz and co. have (I think!) managed to maintain the competitive aspect (which isn't as critical as it was 10 years ago) while balancing that with the desire to tell story.

I was thought "traditional" angle feds limited themselves to an extent in the amount of flexibility and surprise they could build into the story for all audiences. I'm feeling elderly today, so maybe it's just a 'Bah humbug' moment, but it seems like one of the main differences is that angle feds have often been written solely for an external audience, where "RP" feds have always considered both the external and internal (handlers) audiences.

Maybe this is a better metaphor: leagues like FWO have always done a great job of pulling everyone behind the curtain, like cast presenting a performance. Leagues like EPW, NFW, etc. have found a way to balance the handlers' roles as both cast, crew and audience.

On a separate note: Totally agree with Paul and Brunk that new handlers have to be found. I worry, however, about how insular communities become over time. PTC for example is in essence an insulated community that may be shrinking, with the exception of GTT perhaps. FW seems to be in the same boat -- we're comfortable with the community, usually to the exclusion of the outside (e.g. we can maintain an active home page, there isn't much interest at the league level to generate buzz, etc.).

I think at a community-level we need to provide the same experience that our leagues provide: considering the impact on both the internal and external audiences.

-C

 

[LQJT86C]

Damn this thread for preventing me from posting my long blocks of text! F*ck it, I smell a blog post.

 

[TSiegel]

damn this thread for preventing me from posting my long blocks of text! F*ck it, i smell a blog post.

hot damn!!!

 

[PaulNJ21]

You've got to have new people coming in and pushing the pace for themselves and getting the lazier people involved.

Competition is important for everyone. I know a lot of people here don't follow real wrestling anymore, but look how unmotivated Vince has gotten without any legit competition. People need something to keep their drive going otherwise things start getting either boring, stale, or they just start doing whatever they want to amuse themselves. With RPing, there is that sense of competition. If someone just wants to do angles, they could just use a video or computer game and run their storylines off of that.

 

[LQJT86C]

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>This just isn't 1997 anymore. The days when 20-30 new handlers were waiting to be brought into the hobby at any given time...are over. Hate to say it, and I know people might wanna kick the sh*t outta me for suggesting it, but each e-fedding community is about 5-6 retirements away from dying at any given time.

When it becomes "cool" for adults to watch pro-wrestling again, you'll see more people join the hobby. Or maybe not, considering the amount of hobbies available to people compared to when most of us started. Not only that, but hobbies today have an all-encompassing aspect to them. Look at videogames now compared to 10 years ago. Spending an hour or two per day trying to beat Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy <st1:stockticker>VII</st1:stockticker> has turned into World of Warcraft and the XBox Live network. Aside from online games, have you noticed that between updates and "extra content" games today just <st1:stockticker>DON</st1:stockticker>'T END?

High school sports, for those that play, have become more demanding in terms of hours and lifestyle requirements (eating and training methods that weren't emphasized years ago). Factor in time spent on social networking sites, plus college workloads getting heavier all the time, and you've got a million and one reasons why the 13-21 age group DOESN'T have to spend it's time playing a weird ass hobby like fantasy wrestling.

Here's another one: I think people are becoming WORSE writers over time. I've got younger siblings who weren't in HS all that long ago, plus little cousins, and from what I've seen...these kids are f*cking dumb as hell when it comes to writing and reading comprehension. Sure, they're all amazing at math and science (since that's all our schools seem to give a sh*t about nowadays), but these fat little XBox addicted cretins couldn't write a cohesive paragraph if their allowance money depended on it! All of a sudden these rotten teenage motherf*ckers are gonna start pumping out six pages of RP so they can win the TV title off Ice Tre? I don't think so. This is coming from ME, the guy who went to high school with the real life Terence- so you know it's bad!

Handlers get older, and give less of a sh*t about FW than the year before; it's natural. We need new handlers, and until teens and people in their early 20's start giving two craps about pro wrestling to be interested in a hobby like this, it ain't gonna happen.

Wow, what were we talking about again? Damn these rants of mine...<o></o>

 

[jediPREZ]

Competition is important for everyone. I know a lot of people here don't follow real wrestling anymore, but look how unmotivated Vince has gotten without any legit competition. People need something to keep their drive going otherwise things start getting either boring, stale, or they just start doing whatever they want to amuse themselves. With RPing, there is that sense of competition. If someone just wants to do angles, they could just use a video or computer game and run their storylines off of that.

People also like working together and crafting storylines to entertain their groups of friends in this hobby. Angle feds are mostly based off that element versus RP/FW feds being based off of smacktalking competition, if we want to pigeonhole everything.

Besides, RP/FW feds are more angled than anyone cares to admit around here publicly, while Angle feds are more competitive than anyone cares to admit on their side as well.

Instead of preaching to the choir about the supposed virtues of FW styled feds, maybe start looking at the benefits of what angle feds can do for our hobby and this community in particular. I did a long time ago and it opened up NFW to a world where new handlers, old handlers or people named Billy Ferraro are allowed to compete, have fun and write lunatic ravings of an avant-garde filmmaker...and lo and behold, I can take 6 months away without a word and come back to a system that will always have newcomers willing to participate.

I mean, let's face it...the FW talent pool has been about the same since 2000. It's not getting better or worse and it's completely stale. Alot of FW'ers may disagree, but it basically took the efforts of fedheads to visit different styled communities to attract veterans from there to here.

JTP is written by Devin Woods, who had been in angle feds for 7 years and still randomly competes in them from time to time. But Devin was in angle feds for a long time before he even tried an FW fed. It took awhile for him to get into it. If angle feds didn't exist, I never meet Devin through this hobby.

That's why it's important to help angle feds stay alive, if you just start telling them that their system doesn't work and should just be blown up...well, our talent pool won't last forever...and it's not really changing. Alot of who I believe are the better writers in this hobby have either participated in angle feds or started in them. I think it's because they learn to love the idea of a story versus only knowing how to smacktalk/debate in RP form.

ANYWAY.

In terms of what angle feds need to do:

-Shorter matches on weekly shows
-Fedheads/Handlers stop looking for massive amounts of attention to themselves. Deal with constructive feedback professionally if they do get attention.
-Build more cohesive storylines and characters.

The real problem with ACW, fWo and LoC is that they constantly strive to be noticed in a particular light. Sometimes, it's the fault of the fedhead (ACW, no offense Zezu...you're a forum whore ) and sometimes it's the fault of the roster (fWo, one bump in the road...they all bail). Instead of focusing on feedback, websites and "the next big thing," you should be getting a core, stable group of writers that just want to have fun writing together.

It's really not rocket science.

 

[LQJT86C]

Besides, RP/FW feds are more angled than anyone cares to admit around here publicly, while Angle feds are more competitive than anyone cares to admit on their side as well.

Instead of preaching to the choir about the supposed virtues of FW styled feds, maybe start looking at the benefits of what angle feds can do for our hobby and this community in particular. I did a long time ago and it opened up NFW to a world where new handlers, old handlers or people named Billy Ferraro are allowed to compete, have fun and write lunatic ravings of an avant-garde filmmaker...and lo and behold, I can take 6 months away without a word and come back to a system that will always have newcomers willing to participate.

That's the thing that gets me: how different are we from angle feds really? I think one of the best things NFW ever did was tell people right from the start that it's not based 100% off RP. This hobby is basically character pageantry, where beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When people lose under the pretense of "he was just better than you" it's a tough pill to swallow, because realistically nobody ever thinks they lose.

Don't get me wrong, I am one of the biggest proponents of old school smack-talk RP battles; that's what I started with, and there's nothing better than a thread where two handlers battle so hard they begin to legit hate each other. But since coming back, I've learned that working out segments with other handlers to build feuds is just as gratifying, and really it's the only way you're going to get pushed. There was a time where I had a really crappy attitude and refused to work with anyone (except maybe McNic and Ernie Garrett) cause I thought everyone but me sucked, and it got me no where. Now I look back and cringe at my old RPs, and realize I never improved because I never worked with anybody. And if your character isn't involved in any kind of league storyline, he basically means nothing.

So yeah, long story short, angle feds are cool. I'm not in any, but I always give props to fWo and...I dunno, whoever the hell else is out there. I give respect to any league full of competent writers, whether I agree with their "style" or not. Hell, I offered to suck dicks on PTC so people would join NLW. Well, not me personally, but I know people who like to suck dicks that woulda done it. Ok, nevermind, bye.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

Right...

Well, again it depends on what you're talking about when you say "angle fed".

Are you talking about the narrative style? Or are you talking about booking style?

If it's booking style then I think every FW uses angles as, in the very LEAST, an element of their decision making on wins and losses. In the very least, it guides decision making. The better writer should always win under our format though - and generally you're probably not in the position to have a shocking title win if you haven't put in some work through angles and consistent writing in the first place. If you're talented, you'll find your way to that spot. I think there's certainly an element of proving your worth and your willingness to be with the league for the long haul that plays a part in that also.

 

[jediPREZ]

Right...

Well, again it depends on what you're talking about when you say "angle fed".

Are you talking about the narrative style? Or are you talking about booking style?

If it's booking style then I think every FW uses angles as, in the very LEAST, an element of their decision making on wins and losses. In the very least, it guides decision making. The better writer should always win under our format though - and generally you're probably not in the position to have a shocking title win if you haven't put in some work through angles and consistent writing in the first place. If you're talented, you'll find your way to that spot. I think there's certainly an element of proving your worth and your willingness to be with the league for the long haul that plays a part in that also.

I agree with alot of this post.

NFW House Shows are in narrative style, so I don't get caught up in that argument too much 'cause I've also seen angle feds use the play-by-play style for PPV's.

Angle feds to me are simply who's responsible for booking the results in a fed and the basis for that booking. (gets in Jeff Foxworthy mode) If you've got 90% of the results determined by handlers without comparative writing quality taken into account...then ...You're an Angle Fed.

The narrative style is more of a format choice to me.

I'd actually say that EPW is probably the most consistent/truest to form FW/RP fed that I've seen since 2000. I'm sure you'd readily admit that the impact of an angle/story combined with talents of a top-tier FW RP style would propel someone to a World Championship. Dis comes to my mind in that regard. At the same time, you'd probably make a point to say that the Dis RP's were better than everyone else's...and that's why I think EPW still stays truest to the FW/RP style form. I would doubt very much the possibility of an RP not mentioning a match at all earning a win in EPW. Whereas, that might not be the same for my fed.

Alot of it comes down to personal perspective. Alot of it comes down to personal opinion. To touch on Billy's point, we put a disclaimer out there about NFW because we didn't agree with the perspective that only the RP's matter. And in 2000, coming fresh off our angst teenage years on Prodigy, it was a bigger deal to state that upfront. If we were to open our fed stating that now, it wouldn't really matter.

My point in jumping in the discussion is to point out why angle feds are/were useful to our community and shouldn't be treated/viewed negatively. They have a good place in our hobby, but that doesn't mean anyone should go out and join...especially, if that's not their cup of tea. If you're in this hobby for the competition and you're here, you've found the perfect home. I would just hope that people aren't assuming that's what everyone in the hobby uses for motivation/fun. That's quite a one-dimensional view.

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

To comment on the DIS angle: Dave had said he wanted to put the belt on Troy, but if I didn't RP my way to it then it wasn't going to happen at that time. So, it wasn't like I could just coast through everyone in the Russian Roulette tournament because the final result was already set in stone. If anyone out-wrote me, I was going to have to wait for another shot.

So, yeah, you're pretty spot on with that, Katz.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

To comment on the DIS angle: Dave had said he wanted to put the belt on Troy, but if I didn't RP my way to it then it wasn't going to happen at that time. So, it wasn't like I could just coast through everyone in the Russian Roulette tournament because the final result was already set in stone. If anyone out-wrote me, I was going to have to wait for another shot.

So, yeah, you're pretty spot on with that, Katz.

To clarify even further - I had several backup angles in mind in case Lindsay put up any duds in RP. I had it set up so that whoever did the best RP, I had a storyline set to use for it - and that's pretty standard for any angle I give the go ahead to - anyone who's worked with me knows I specifically like to have angles to be flexible so they can be adjusted on the fly. I do not like 'set in stone' godbooking. Just a preference.

 

[John Doe]

I know I'm Late on the conversation maybe someone can help me out but what's an efed?