ULTRATITLE Rd. 1 Br. 1 Unofficial Post-RP Predictions Thread!

[DBrunkGXW]

Yep, this whole debate has gotten very very stupid and was pointless from the get-go. I tried to make the point sarcastically earlier, that nothing will be gained or solved by ANY of this, and of course, here we are.

I voted for both narrative (even though I generally don't like narrative) and RP-style writers in my judging, based solely on if it entertained me, you got your character across, and most important, you address the tournament and why you're here and want to win it. If you hit those points, you did well with me in my judging. That's all that matters.

Aside from that, and before I personally get too pissed off about some stupid f**king comments myself, maybe it's best if we leave the non-predictions posts out of this thread from now on. It's a predictions thread after all, not a "My style is better than your style" thread. Enough.

These threads serve little purpose other than to cause dissent, not discussion. Remember when all of this was fun and wasn't about taking potshots or playing holier than thou?

...

I do.

Why So Serious?

Edit: no one here is going to change anyone's opinions. Leave it to the judges, preferably without bullying or skewing public opinion, and move on.

 

[Steve]

Billy if i called into your podcast my wife wouldn't let me hear the end of it.

Though she's now offering to call for me and speak for me.

 

[The Great Eye]

I remember CWL was fun. fWo was fun. HEW was fun. Then again, in those formats, people worked with each other, not against. And telling a story was paramount.

Yes, and in a league that will continue to exist for a while, and your character's participation in that league is assured to continue past the current card, I think storytelling is the biggest and most important part of a league, you should always be working with people to build storylines to forward a plot and move things along and get as many people as possible involved.

Ultratitle isn't that, there is no storyline other than 'I want to win Ultratitle' and that's pretty much it, one guy is going to do it and 127 others are going to fail, there is no real time for a long storyline about a character's life to play out in a 'win or go home' format, this is a storyline onto itself, the tournament and the struggle to win it are the story.

 

[User Poets]

Billy if i called into your podcast my wife wouldn't let me hear the end of it.

Though she's now offering to call for me and speak for me.

THIS.

A thousand times, this.

HELLOW FELLOW WRESTLERS!

 

[LQJT86C]

I disagree, I actually think we're having a pretty good discussion. Did I insult Steve personally at any time? Calling roleplay that I didn't like "crap" isn't a personal shot. You are not your character, and when you write, you're putting it out there for criticism. (There are communities out there where people are A LOT more harsh than I'm being) I think you're assuming that I'm taking this a lot more serious than I am. We had a lot of laughs talking about this on the podcast today, but I guess the tone comes off as more "serious" in the thread. ::shrugs::

These threads serve little purpose other than to cause dissent, not discussion. Remember when all of this was fun and wasn't about taking potshots or playing holier than thou?

...

I do.

Why So Serious?

Edit: no one here is going to change anyone's opinions. Leave it to the judges, preferably without bullying or skewing public opinion, and move on.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

I put this to Gregg and Steve, and I'm gonna put it here one LAST TIME.

AS A JUDGE -- which, btw, Gregg is not, Steve is not, Billy is not. No offense to any of those guys, and I'm friends with all three, but it doesn't really matter what they think of your roleplay in the context of doing well in this tournament. Their opinions are for fun, and that's it.

AS FOR THE JUDGES -- we gave you our criteria in the VERY BEGINNING. That's why we had a JUDGES PODCAST, to get these questions out in the open. We gave our criteria, we took questions from callers, we answered EVERYTHING. Christ. I mean we gave our opinions on what we wanted as judges UP FRONT. Why is this still a mystery?? It's simple. We gave criteria. Go by the criteria, or lose. College courses give you rubrics for term papers right? You follow it or you fail. It's not that difficult.

If non-judges can't give and take criticism without devolving into bulls**t, then maybe you shouldn't be posting. This is going on a good half dozen times we've had to answer the same damn questions.

JUST STOP.

You've been told what the judges are looking for. Listen to it, follow it, or don't. If you don't, do not be shocked when you lose. That's all I'm saying. It's just ENOUGH. It's not about narrative vs. script. It's not about addressing fu**ing fans or not. We TOLD YOU WHAT WE WANT. And if you can't post without being a douchebag, then take a f**king hike. This is not the place where OOC drama gets to stick around. We get rid of it. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

So, last time.

Grow up, discuss it like men, or don't discuss it at all. That's it.

 

[Steve]

THIS.

A thousand times, this.

HELLOW FELLOW WRESTLERS!

Pete I've been instructed to say, "Mrs. Pepper has retired for the evening."

Ass nut.

 

[Unregistered]

Nothing to see here. Move along and give us bracket 2 fools some love.

 

[Chad]

I'm disappointed that no one's passionate about anything around here.

And the results haven't even been posted!

Billy, let's be honest, you didn't do a podcast. You recorded a conference call. Yeah, YOU HEARD ME!

 

[LQJT86C]

I'm disappointed that no one's passionate about anything around here.

And the results haven't even been posted!

Billy, let's be honest, you didn't do a podcast. You recorded a conference call. Yeah, YOU HEARD ME!

What can I say...TalkShoe is the welfare cheese of podcast sites.

Not everyone has your German organizational skills, CHAD!

 

[John Doe]

I <3 everyone. 'Nough said.

 

[AUMedina]

What can I say...TalkShoe is the welfare cheese of podcast sites.

Not everyone has your German organizational skills, CHAD!

Screw you, Billy! Welfare cheese is awesome!

 

[Chad]

I'll post a little bit of what I told Billy in AIM, and I'm sure it'll get mentioned on the upcoming podcast Thursday when the judges get together. My take:

• Zero vs. Blaine Hollywood was a clinic done by Jamar and Andy that everyone in the hobby should read. The styles were completely different and in each case they left me wanting to see more of the character. Blaine is the ultimate trash talker. Zero isn't.
• The idea that Logic and Physics are somehow the pinnacles of this hobby and form the ring we "wrestle' in is ludicrous. I'm the first one to say that Lindsay Troy shouldn't be able to body slam a 350-pound guy. But physics isn't at play in this discussion. And arguing that it isn't "logical" to do a character development piece that isn't defined as on-camera because it doesn't have a (FADEIN) tag borders on illogical.
• What this is about is style. WWE could have easily done a Zero-like return for Brock Lesnar. Show him training in his home, hunting, whatever, with an internal monologue running that shows the reason he made his decision to come back. Does WWE have to TELL the audience that they can't really hear Lesnar's internal thoughts?
• And this context (the Tournament) is vastly different than a league, whether RP or Angle. It's a contrived context that is forcing characters together with no huge impetus behind them. Both Blaine and Zero gave us insight into their impetus. Blaine's is crystal clear and out there. Zero's is part of the story and is still hidden from view. Other characters gave us 1500 words on the titles they've won and why they're here -- am I supposed to consider that the audience might boo them out of the building for that?
• By the way, Jamar gets points for doing promo rp without any actual words to react to from his opponent. If you haven't figured it out yet, the judges do consider who roleplays first and who goes last. It's harder to go first, and it's certainly harder to have a trash talker respond to someone who isn't talking.
• The judges were clear that the style wasn't the issue for the tournament -- it's about telling a good story and doing it in a coherent way. Both guys in this one match did. There were lots of others who did or didn't. We suggested that you needed to frame roleplay in the context of the tournament and your opponent. Andy did that by drawing us in to want to know more about why Zero was returning, and he did it in a SUBTLE way (note how I put that in caps for those of you who have never seen that word before -- in Erik Mateo language it's SUTTLE). Andy's taking a risk and doing a slow burn. Blaine never met a microphone he didn't want to swallow, and Jamar is playing that up as well. Other handlers took risks in different ways -- and tomorrow or Thursday we find out whose paid off in the eyes of the judges.

 

[Koby]

If you haven't figured it out yet, the judges do consider who roleplays first and who goes last. It's harder to go first, and it's certainly harder to have a trash talker respond to someone who isn't talking.

How about if you ended up going second then wanted to go first on the second go-around but got called into work in the middle of writing your RP as such, came home, finished it, then ended up posting it after your opponent tossed up his 2nd RP while you were stuck at work/finishing RP?

 

[HeavyMetalHero]

I'll post a little bit of what I told Billy in AIM, and I'm sure it'll get mentioned on the upcoming podcast Thursday when the judges get together. My take:

• Zero vs. Blaine Hollywood was a clinic done by Jamar and Andy that everyone in the hobby should read. The styles were completely different and in each case they left me wanting to see more of the character. Blaine is the ultimate trash talker. Zero isn't.
• The idea that Logic and Physics are somehow the pinnacles of this hobby and form the ring we "wrestle' in is ludicrous. I'm the first one to say that Lindsay Troy shouldn't be able to body slam a 350-pound guy. But physics isn't at play in this discussion. And arguing that it isn't "logical" to do a character development piece that isn't defined as on-camera because it doesn't have a (FADEIN) tag borders on illogical.
• What this is about is style. WWE could have easily done a Zero-like return for Brock Lesnar. Show him training in his home, hunting, whatever, with an internal monologue running that shows the reason he made his decision to come back. Does WWE have to TELL the audience that they can't really hear Lesnar's internal thoughts?
• And this context (the Tournament) is vastly different than a league, whether RP or Angle. It's a contrived context that is forcing characters together with no huge impetus behind them. Both Blaine and Zero gave us insight into their impetus. Blaine's is crystal clear and out there. Zero's is part of the story and is still hidden from view. Other characters gave us 1500 words on the titles they've won and why they're here -- am I supposed to consider that the audience might boo them out of the building for that?
• By the way, Jamar gets points for doing promo rp without any actual words to react to from his opponent. If you haven't figured it out yet, the judges do consider who roleplays first and who goes last. It's harder to go first, and it's certainly harder to have a trash talker respond to someone who isn't talking.
• The judges were clear that the style wasn't the issue for the tournament -- it's about telling a good story and doing it in a coherent way. Both guys in this one match did. There were lots of others who did or didn't. We suggested that you needed to frame roleplay in the context of the tournament and your opponent. Andy did that by drawing us in to want to know more about why Zero was returning, and he did it in a SUBTLE way (note how I put that in caps for those of you who have never seen that word before -- in Erik Mateo language it's SUTTLE). Andy's taking a risk and doing a slow burn. Blaine never met a microphone he didn't want to swallow, and Jamar is playing that up as well. Other handlers took risks in different ways -- and tomorrow or Thursday we find out whose paid off in the eyes of the judges.

I am so glad you're one of the guys helping run this thing. It's good to see a guy willing to think broadly in e-fedding.

 

[Dr Curiosity]

It's a tournament with people from different communities; you get judged by what the judges are looking for here. Elsewhere it'd be different. In PTC the tournaments became exercises in storytelling, and someone bragging about how many people they recently beat wouldn't make it past the first round. Over here in this tournament there's far more focus on wrestling, and that's cool too. Both styles are fine, just so long as you know in advance that your story about a time travelling soldier of fortune is unlikely to have much success when matched against a good wrestler.The judges have said what they're after in this tournament. If you complain that they don't like something utterly different then it's something of a self-defeating argument.

 

[J The Ripper]

EVERYONE IS YELLING AND THAT MAKES ME ANGRY FOR REASONS I DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THIS ALL BECAME TOO LONG TO READ! *ROARS AND THROWS A CHAIR AT CHAD*

Man...I feel so much better now.

 

[Justin]

Do you guys know how to post videos to facebook?

 

[J The Ripper]

So 8 seconds ago.

 

[Unregistered]

This is Gregg -- too lazy to sign in.

Anyways, I do think that, for the most part, this has been a very good conversation. Like anything online it can get testy. But it has been pretty solid for the most part.

I'm sorry if anyone's feelings were hurt by my reviews.

That wasn't my intent -- I only know a handful of guys in this round and tried to indicate who I knew and didn't. I was really impressed by a lot of characters. And I'm definitely opening my eyes to the benefits of narrative style -- there was a lot of good work, and has been for a while.

My only problem with narrative style right now is that I do believe that there is a fictional audience looking at all of this, and that everything should go towards that fictional audience. Us script guys accept that and try to use it -- some better than others. There is a way for narrative guys to address that, and many have. I just think that's more-or-less the "connectivity" between the two styles.

If you DON'T address that, my disbelief since my primary question is, "How does an audience view this?" Is it a blog entry? A personal letter? A magazine feature? There are SO many ways to just put this in ANY sort of context where a fictional audience can see where it's coming from. I don't think it's too much to ask for that, and it allows for more creativity.

It's up to the writer to suspend my disbelief. And at least indicating how a fictional audience can see this does that for me in terms of promos. And I think there always SHOULD be a fictional audience. Fictional announcers and fans exist when matches are written. It's not too big of a leap to think there is a 24/7 audience "watching" promos -- the WWE is starting up a 24/7 wrestling network; there are a bunch of leagues on here which literally go back for a decade or more, etc. And if you consider other ways to frame things -- blogs, YouTube, magazine articles, etc. -- than that becomes even more realistic.

As far as in-ring action goes, that I don't care about so much. I'm willing to believe a female can beat up a guy, a 115-pounder cruiser can pin a 7'4" giant, etc. And I am also totally fine with evil savages, Undertaker-ish zombies, etc. That's all part of the camp appeal of "real" wrestling and I'm totally cool with it in FW, with some limits of course.

THat's my two cents. I won't clutter anymore. Again, sorry if anyone took anything I said as hurtful and harmful.