RIP Chris Benoit

[TWhitefield]

Well, regardless of what Benoit's mental state was when he did it, there's really no justification.

I'm more dismayed by the WWE's reaction post-investigation to all of this.

It's quite clear that the powers that be within the WWE are more concerned with how this will reflect on them than what actually happened. Perhaps it's justified. I'm not sure. But, seeing Vince McMahon, of all people, comment on this just smacks of hypocracy, considering the Owen Hart incident.

And, for those who will defend McMahon and say he didn't kill him, no, not directly. But, it was his actions that put Owen in that position.

For those who are unaware, Owen Hart HATED the Blue Blazer gimmick. Despised it with a passion. McMahon forced him back into the gimmick as punishment because Owen Hart refused to do a sensless angle that revolved around him cheating on his wife.

An angle every bit as senseless as the stupid angle they're running now with McMahon's death. Yet, on the very night they memorialized Benoit (prior to news of how he and his family died), we were supposed to endure a fake memorial for a man who has destroyed far more lives in one fashion or another.

So now, all Benoit merchandise has been removed from the WWE Shopzone. They've even gone so far as to remove Benoit's name from the write up of WrestleMania 20, as if people admiring his on camera work somehow benefits Benoit.

But, hey, I'm sure we'll still be able to buy Vince McMahon merchanidse from now until the end of time.

 

[RStrawsma]

I've been following the dirt sheets and news resources. The distrinct attorney is now saying Daniel was killed by a wrestling chokehold. There's never been any mention of a pillow; the speculation before now was that he used a garbage bag.

This quote is from the article where this was mentioned...

District Attorney Scott Ballard said the autopsy indicated that there were no bruise marks on his neck, so authorities are now assuming he could have been killed using a choke hold. "It's a process of elimination," he said.

"Assuming" is the key word there... and it's a pretty base assumption if you ask me. If there's no bruising or marks on the neck, that would seem to indicate to me that he used a pillow to suffocate as opposed to strangulation. The Crossface idea (which is meant to stretch the neck and shoulder) is nothing more than a rumor.

I really don't care what means he used to do it... the act itself is pretty damn frightening to me.

 

[AshleyScott]

There is a remote possibility that Nancy killed daniel. We really don't have an accurate timeline of death because of the cororners report/toxicology. But Nancy was a trained professional wrestler as well. They did say their was brusing on the interal throat (most rear naked chokes cause that) but I'd be curious to know if their was bruising on Daniels back/trap's area because lets face it, a 230 pound guy on a kid weighting what, 50-60 pounds, is going to leave some bruises. Nancy is probably 120 so the bruising possibility is less. It would explain Chris's sudden snap finding out Nancy killed the kid. A thought that needs to be considered. Most child deaths from parents are from the mother since father worships sons.

 

[EpyonMarx]

The police would not have been so adamant about it being a double murder/suicide with the order of death being Nancy-Daniel-Chris if that were still a possibility. There are several ways to determine the order of death in these situations, but working out the approximate time of death; body temperature, degree of rigour-mortis, and the size of the fly larvae found on/near the corpses. It's been five days now as well, so one would imagine the police would have found enough evidence to cast doubt on that sequence of deaths and would have reported as such.

 

[AshleyScott]

i know that I'm a cop, and i also know most departments tend be a bit lazy and jump to what they think is the most obvious, in this case, Chris. No major media outlet has reported nancy to be a wrestler, which we all know she was. Course watching Nancy Grace and Geraldo is just comical. I am surprised on how Bret Hart is doing. If he wanted to stick it to vince he really could, but he's been good as the neutral middle. Hypothetically, if Chris tox report does come back Steroid free, we have another Duke Case on our hands of the media rushing to conclusions and the general laymen falling for it again.

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

There is a remote possibility that Nancy killed daniel. We really don't have an accurate timeline of death because of the cororners report/toxicology. But Nancy was a trained professional wrestler as well. They did say their was brusing on the interal throat (most rear naked chokes cause that) but I'd be curious to know if their was bruising on Daniels back/trap's area because lets face it, a 230 pound guy on a kid weighting what, 50-60 pounds, is going to leave some bruises. Nancy is probably 120 so the bruising possibility is less. It would explain Chris's sudden snap finding out Nancy killed the kid. A thought that needs to be considered. Most child deaths from parents are from the mother since father worships sons.

Have you seen the press conferences? Read news reports? Nancy's time of death was placed at Friday.

i also know most departments tend be a bit lazy and jump to what they think is the most obvious, in this case, Chris.

Most child deaths from parents are from the mother since father worships sons.

Yeah, you're using a lot of "most"s here. I thought cops, if you even are one...no one here knows you so who knows, liked to deal with hard evidence. And are there study results to prove your "fathers worship their sons so they don't kill them" theory? Or are you just pulling this out of thin air?

 

[Mittens T. Cat]

Maybe it's just me.

But to hell with him.

I've been diagnosed with a severe case of paranoid anxiety at the age of 15. Added with the hard drugs I was taking around the same time (and nearly didn't survive) I was an absolute nutcase for a couple of years. Katz may debate that I am a complete nutcase to this day.

ANYWAY, I usually fight for the gray area to be seen. Not in this case. The guy killed his wife, and his child. Took two lives. TWO ****ing lives.

The man was a great wrestler, but far from a great person.

Killing his own son.

And then he didn't even have the balls to face it.

He may as well have shot up a campus while he was at it.

 

[AshleyScott]

there are tons of studies, tons of case evidence as well as antidotial evidence. Secondly, the inital press conference just offered a rough estimate of time of death. You cannot do an exact science guess until the autopsy. There are certain clues like rigor mortis, pooling of the blood where the body makes contact with something, and temperatures, but its rough estimates only. Not something to be taken as fact within a few hours of finding the body. I've seen cases fall apart in court because of a rush to press conference. Not only that I've had advanced CSI training from my department so i can speak with experience. Epon posted some good thoughts as well in regards to larvae and biological influences to determine time of death since those are more accurate tools in determining time of death.

 

[AshleyScott]

there are tons of studies, tons of case evidence as well as antidotial evidence. Secondly, the inital press conference just offered a rough estimate of time of death. You cannot do an exact science guess until the autopsy. There are certain clues like rigor mortis, pooling of the blood where the body makes contact with something, and temperatures, but its rough estimates only. Not something to be taken as fact within a few hours of finding the body. I've seen cases fall apart in court because of a rush to press conference. Not only that I've had advanced CSI training from my department so i can speak with experience. Epon posted some good thoughts as well in regards to larvae and biological influences to determine time of death since those are more accurate tools in determining time of death.

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

there are tons of studies, tons of case evidence as well as antidotial evidence.

Again, where's your hard proof? Or are you still conjecturing here?

Secondly, the inital press conference just offered a rough estimate of time of death. You cannot do an exact science guess until the autopsy. There are certain clues like rigor mortis, pooling of the blood where the body makes contact with something, and temperatures, but its rough estimates only. Not something to be taken as fact within a few hours of finding the body.

They did the autopsies. The press conference Tuesday talked a little about the findings of said autopsies, which concluded that Nancy died on Friday, Daniel died sometime on Saturday and then Chris died after Daniel. They didn't give an exact time of death, but they didn't necessarily have to. If the autopsies are incorrect, no one has come out to dispute what was reported by the PD.

I can't be the only one who watched this.

 

[t r e]

re:AshleyScott

i dunno. i guess i can understand your skepticsm, lindz. but the CSI training we're talking about here is advanced. press conferences be damned.

re:Benoit

such a sad, crazy thing. i will say that it saddens me further to see WWE further distance themselves from Benoit -- McMahon calling him a "monster" more than once on the Today Show seemed extreme. this guy was like family to most of the roster. i know, i know. but ... still.

scary to think no one saw it coming.

 

[AshleyScott]

They did the autopsies. The press conference Tuesday talked a little about the findings of said autopsies, which concluded that Nancy died on Friday, Daniel died sometime on Saturday and then Chris died after Daniel. They didn't give an exact time of death, but they didn't necessarily have to. If the autopsies are incorrect, no one has come out to dispute what was reported by the PD.

I can't be the only one who watched this.

That is why they are waiting for a full tox and autopsy report. They did just an intial prelim report. Most judges and attorneys, as well as a chief medical examiner would authorize a deeper autopsy report because of the high profile case this is. Most prelim autopsies are done by people fresh out of med school to 3 years experience. I would suspect they would bring in a foresnic pathologist to accurately determine time, causes, drugs, etc, especially since the talk of lawsuit has now being tossed around.

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

re:AshleyScott

i dunno. i guess i can understand your skepticsm, lindz. but the CSI training we're talking about here is advanced. press conferences be damned.

Paul, I'm not even being skeptical about what happened. What's there is what's there until someone comes out and either further elaborates on it or says something to disprove it. AshleyScott's the one who said that Nancy may have killed Daniel when no one's given any indication of that being a possibility after the autopsies were done. If other tests end up showing something different then fine, but right now no one's giving that theory any weight besides speculating about it.

The only thing I'm skeptical about is AshleyScott's unfounded claims that

Most child deaths from parents are from the mother since father worships sons

when he or she hasn't given me any evidence whatsoever to back this up other than some off-hand comments that may or may not be true. If he/she wants to link me to a case study, or an article in a psychiatric/psychological journal, I'll gladly drop it. Until then, don't make a broad claim like that without something to support it.

 

[Phenomenal]

We are really going nowhere with any of this. Let's just stop the back and forth nature.

A family is gone. Let's mourn the deaths. Chris obviously had a mental flaw.

Although it was in a tragic way, Daniel is in a better place.

The other two Benoit children will need all the love they can get.

If you pray.. Pray for each family. Nancy's and Chris's


After that... Mojito's for everybody!!