Tag Teams in FW

[AUMedina]

This is something I've been meaning to discuss about for awhile and I was wondering if this seems like something that could logically happen.

One thing that has plagued all leagues in FW Central that I have seen for the 6+ years I've been in this game is the lack of tag teams. Granted, some leagues have around the average of six tag teams to warrant a tag team title.

But what if each league owner could come to some sort of an agreement and have one tag title that spans all leagues in FW Central?

What I am proposing is have one set of tag team titles for all leagues within FW Central. We could come up with some sort of rating system as to who gets a title shot and where. Where the champions defend the titles, that league's owner is responsible for judging for the RPs and writing of the match.

But it doesn't have to stop there. Other tag teams can come and go to the different leagues and wrestle for a chance to become the #1 contenders to the titles.

Of course there are negatives to this, such as who gets the next title shots, how to coordinate matches and title defenses, and also building storylines and angles.

If anyone has any suggestions or have any comments on this, feel free to add to this discussion. I've been a fan of tag team wrestling and would like to see a tag team resurgence in FW.

 

[jediPREZ]

All three fedheads of NFW are fans of tag team wrestling probably moreso than singles wrestling.

So, we'd be all for helping out with this.

 

[RStrawsma]

Being a handler of current Tag Team Champions, I'd say it would be a good idea... but what would happen to the current champions? They merely get stripped of their titles?

Additionally, how will this get tied into IC? In Character, there's no obvious connection among the various federations, all linked to one central point (FWCentral).

Also, would there be the possibility of making instead of one ultimate pair of titles, up to three or four sets? You could have the World Tag Team champions, and, I don't know... Intercontinental Tag Team titles, North American Tag Team titles... whatever.

I'm just presenting some questions, so all the kinks are worked out.

 

[Al!]

Here's the major issue.. and this applies to every title situation, not just tag teams..

If you have too many titles none of them end up meaning anything. At most if there's one FW wide tag title for all the teams there should be one tag title per fed or territory, otherwise everyone's got a piece of something and nothing matters.

Next matter of contention would be if a fed was part of the fwc circuit and didn't have a tag division. It would be nice if the fwc tag championship was defended on all of the fed's shows in the circuit and not just the team's home fed. It'd add some depth to a show with no tag wrestling.

Lastly, and this is something that I've done before in feds that I've personally run.. we may want to consider making the tag championship an open invitational if it's so important.. anyone can challenge for it at any time. This really worked for me and after about a month of this we had 10 tag teams in the fed, took about a month after that for the title changes to settle down but we had 5-7 great teams after that and the division was competitive.

Granted you have to be willing to shill your fed to get response like that, oh well.

Food for thought
Al

 

[AUMedina]

Well first off, I don't think there should be multiple tag titles for the entire circuit. The reason being is that it kind of kills the meaning of the World Tag Team Titles.

What could circumvent this problem is that if one league has enough tag teams to warrant themselves their own personal set of tag titles, then by all means go for it.

The Tag Team Ultratitle would encompass all leagues on these boards. Now as I stated earlier, the champions of the titles defends the titles in ALL leagues. So for instance, say a tag team from NFW won the titles, all title defenses do not happen in JUST NFW, but in ALL the leagues.

What could help with this is some kind of "road" schedule, in that the team who holds the titles make the rounds. For example: The champions would have to follow this schedule:

EPW
NFW
NEW
WFW
NWL
GXW

and so on.

I think this would work the only problem I foresee as I've stated in my previous post is the program with storylines and angles. Going from fed to fed to defend the titles would be great, but of course, they should have some definitive meaning to them.

Now if such a venture were to happen, I'm sure with Chad's approval, I could conjure up a forum that could hold the inaugural event. In fact, I've been also thinking about an idea where all cross-promotion events could be posted on said forum. Just an idea thrown out to all league owners and members.

 

[Al!]

I think Medina's got the right idea going.

On the topic of a cross-promotion area.. I think that there are two stepping stones that need to be looked at seriously.

1. A lot of the handlers around here are in multiple feds with the same character. They're their own cross-promotion event every week

2. Individual feds really do deserve to host the cross promotion events on their own cards. If we put them somewhere else, people may just read the events and not get into the individual fed's efforts, which arguably is the point of cross-promotion work in the first place.

I'd also like to put in a strong voice of concern that this sort of thing should not turn FWC into an interfed. Any musings of regular interfed rankings or something of that sort should be shot down immediately. The real strength of this place is that it's got the community feeling without all the bs that happened at PTC or FedWars.

So as long as the individual feds benefit I'm all for this. If the identities of the individual feds suffer or become irrelevant because of circuit sanctioned titles.. no way.

Al

 

[RStrawsma]

So, clear up something for me...

Are we abolishing ALL the titles for the federations, making ONE title for the many teams throughout the different feds...?

...or are we just bringing in a NEW title that's more ULTIMATE than the other World Titles the other feds bring up?

 

[Al!]

If I'm reading this right the effort is to make Tag Team wrestling more important by sanctioning a circuit Tag title or UltraTag so that feds that don't have tag divisions can still have tag wrestling on their cards.. the side benefit is it would give people a reason to build tag teams.

Now if a fed had enough teams to have their own tag title so be it. It wouldn't be effected, but the UltraTag by virtue of being defended on all feds cards would be more visible.

Al

Note: I'm taking special interest in this thread because I have three or four tag teams that are collecting dust and have run highly successful tag divisions before for other fed heads as well as my own feds. I am not involved with the movement to do this other than as a commentor..

 

[Chad]

There are obviously some great positives and some major negatives that can come as part of something like this. It's been done before, back on the *P* circuit, with the Unified Title, and it went south, for a number of reasons.

However, I think with the right buy-in from leagues that want to participate, and the right staff helping manage it, that it could go over very well.

As others have brought up, one of the biggest challenges is finding a way to keep some ongoing angles and storylines going on, and introducing new tag teams to 'travelling' champs so that they can create some sort of dialogue with them (i.e. so that they know who they're facing).

The CSWA's tag situation has been dire for quite a while. In fact, we're about to make some announcements post-CSWA15 that will change the tag division there... and that could actually fit into something like this. Not to give away storylines, but the general intent was to put the tag titles up for grabs in some sort of major special event.

I think the major keys to success will be:

1) Don't require leagues to 'give up' their existing tag titles if they don't want to.

2) Don't make the schedule so rigid that defenses are held up because a card doesn't come out on time in a given league, etc.

3) Creating a method to determine match outcomes, and gaining commitment from the leaders of the leagues involved that they won't 'take their ball and go home.'

One additional thought might be instead of having 'circuit' champs in the travelling sense... to actually create a quarterly event (or something) that builds momentum. So, for example, maybe each league enters 1-2 tag teams (possibly determined by a mini-tournament or whatever in each league) into a larger contest. Rather than the champs 'defending' that title in each league at different cards, they get a leg up to defend it at the next "event." That might solve some of the continuity problems between the league, since many aren't interrelated, and may not necessarily want to be to a larger extent.

I don't know..just thinking off the top of my head now.

-C

 

[Chad]

So, clear up something for me...

Are we abolishing ALL the titles for the federations, making ONE title for the many teams throughout the different feds...?

...or are we just bringing in a NEW title that's more ULTIMATE than the other World Titles the other feds bring up?

Ryan,

See my two cents in my other reply. I don't think it makes sense to abolish individual fed titles. If anything, I think the event would be aimed at getting more tag teams into the individual FW leagues.

In fact, that may be a broader discussion as well. The first 'event', you'd want to make open, to encourage folks outside the community with existing tags to come in, and to encourage folks inside to dust off tag teams or create some new ones (possibly with existing singles guys). But I think after that, you'd want to tie future events/defenses into *existing* teams in FW leagues.

I hope that makes sense. The idea would be to push good participants into staying within the community, which means in an FW league.

-C

 

[SouthernBoy]

I don't mean to be a spoil-sport or anything, but I've seen the Ultra-title thing tried a number of times and it's never worked.

I think, no matter how many of us don't want to admit it, there are still alot of egos involved in Fantasy wrestling, and having a fed head from a league you're not in determine out outcome for one of your matches could cause major problems.

Note: The example I'm using is fictional, I'm pulling feds out of my head here

For instance, Team NFW wins the Ultratitle in a tournament. This team goes to EFW to defend the title against a team from that fed and looses. I can see the owner of Team NFW getting upset because he feels maybe a little "hometown" bias has come into play.

If we do this, I think results have to be determined by some kind of committee (I know this has failed too) or some way where any hint of "corruption" is done away with.

I know alot of guys on this board and most wouldn't have a problem with it, but it only takes one time to blow the whole damn thing out of the water.

I'm excited about doing this as I've always liked Tag wrestling, but we've got to come up with a real good plan to make it work, or else it'll be alot of effort for nothing.

JMTC,

Jason

 

[AUMedina]

Aidan:

The event that determines the first tag champions would be held as a special event hosted on a special set of forums for everyone to view. Afterwards, every tag title defense would happen at that particular fed's event.

Also, there will BE no interfed that encompass all leagues on FW Central.

Ryan:

No individual league's tag titles would be abolished. Everything stays the same, just that now you have an extra set of tag titles that gives teams a chance to compete with one another that otherwise they wouldn't have.

Chad:

You basically indicate all the reasons why I mentioned this idea. Some leagues would love (I know I would with the NWL) to start their tag division, but can't. This would give those who wish to join a league as a tag team to join but also, gives a league a chance to prove that they are a viable league to host such tag teams.

With the storylines for such a challenge, I think you're on to something. I think working towards special "events" would be a good idea.

Jason:

I think one thing we could do is form a special committee to judge said matches, for checks and balances. Anywhere from 3 to 5 people would suffices. However the downside of that is that individual league owners would feel like they aren't trustworthy. Personally, I'd like to put the judging of matches up to the individual league owner because I feel if they can run a fed and judge their own matches, who's to say they can't judge the matches for the Tag Team Ultratitles (I just used that name for historic reference )?

The thing is that in order for something like this to work, everyone has to come to an agreement that everyone could be trusted in making something like this a reality.

However, let me just end this with this one proposition. If there was enough interest generated for such an idea, I would like to have some sort of voting census amongst the FW Central community dealing with such issues discussed in this thread.

 

[EpyonMarx]

A committee would be a good idea, but you'd run the risk of people questioning the process if someone on it wasn't available for a while, or if the decision was close.

Might it not be worth asking someone outside fwrestling to judge? I know a couple of people I could ask, and all they'd have to do is decide based upon the promo's. They'd have little to no bias at all, and could e-mail the card writer with their decision.


As for the situation regarding the titles; why not make it so the champions follow a tour schedule, but let each fed keep their titles. Did territorial titles diminish the NWA 's main title? I don't think it did. If we have each fed which has a division keep it's titles, then we basically have a "champion of champions" scenario. We also bi-pass the need to find a way to determine who challenged that show, since the champions of that league would be deemed the number one team, and could challenge the fwrestling champs by virtue of being 'the best' in the fed at that moment of time.

 

[jediPREZ]

Speaking from personal experience with Randalls and the Unified Title...yes it can suck...its probably the one time in this hobby that I felt extremely resented for no reason...hell, I think I left *P after the whole debacle that ensued with Randalls and that title.

That and the UWA closing...

...but the difference here is that no league that I'm aware of has a reputable tag division, while in the *P past alot of fedheads wanted their league to have their singles champ as "the champ."

I think we all should also realize that this community has matured since *P and won't lynchmob something like this. I certainly hope we've learned from our mistakes.

I would think the only way to counteract the past would be to not allow current fedheads on the judging team for this and I don't have a problem with that.

As far as other league tag titles now being deemed less worthy...well, I don't know what to say about that. I haven't seen a reputable tag division since NFW 1.0 - that's not ego, that's cause we had 8 heavily roleplayed tag teams.

In NFW 2.0, I wanted to run a mini-season than a Crocket Cup tournament to decide the final tag champs, unfortunately not enough interest was drawn so the plan was scrapped.

Honestly, I have no clue how the titles should be defended...should only tag champions of leagues get shots, or something else?

There's alot of questions, but if we want to bring tag wrestling back to something of importance - this seems like a good route at the moment cause leagues can work together to build a solid division.

 

[jediPREZ]

I don't mean to be a spoil-sport or anything, but I've seen the Ultra-title thing tried a number of times and it's never worked.

*cough*

 

[Chad]

Actually, the ULTRATITLE Tournament always worked well. It was the Unified Championship that hit roadblocks, for a number of reasons.

"Special Events" are something I'd like to cultivate more of as we go forward in the community. As Katz said, I think the community has matured to a point that it can handle it. For an example, look at Battleground Britain (although I was still somewhat surprised that people thought Hornet appearing was a shock ;>).

-C

 

[Steve]

So you wanna be a beachbum slacker

I agree with Jason on this. Everybody's hearts are in the right place, but UNIFIED titles have always turned into a disaster. While, we've matured (those of us who have been around a while), Jason's right. We all have egos. Let's just be man enough to admit it.

I would like to see FWC wide events.

On the tag team idea, I think we should test the waters first before diving in headfirst.

The goal shouldn't be a unified title, just for the sake of having a title. It'd be to increase your own league's awareness. Having characters not in your league drop by and rp would be a boost.

But.....are "one and done' shots so effective? Let's say Team Martin loses the belts in the ABC LEAGUE. Then the ABC league team, Team Thomas goes off to pick up the rest of the tour. Okay. Fine.

What about Team Martin? What chance do they have of getting it back? When's their next shot?

I think by a 'tour' you ruin the angle side of FW. If a match was so well roleplayed and the match written well....people might want to see a rematch...a feud...etc. Where's the promise of that?

To me a UNIFIED title would be windowdressing. It's just not worth it. Not just because it'll invariably turn out bad, but i think misses the point on why everyone's really excited about doing this.

Example: GXW's BB show. I brought Windham in and had fun role-playing him against Ryan. Afterwards, I was leaning towards the idea of staying in the GXW and feuding with Ryan some more. In a UNIFIED Tag spot.....I can see this scene playing out, but you're saying I have no option of a feud. The champion be it me or Ryan would have to move on to the next stop in the tour. Now, yeah if my team were still champs when we came back to the GXW Ryan would be there.....but.....by that time there's no other viable contender?

I don't see it working.

But if it ever did come to pass, no....under no circumstance should the fedhead(s) be allowed to vote on who wins.

What we need to focus on is just what Chad suggested. FWC Seasonal events. I'm all for getting tag wrestling back in the limelight. Chad and I have considered an idea or two lately ourselves. And I'm not saying 'no' just because Chad and I have something planned. My ego's big, but it's not that big.

I'm just speaking from experience. A UNIFIED title, be it tag or otherwise is doomed to fail.

Special events, such as Supercards or Crocket Cups are the way go, from my point of view.

-Stephen

 

[AUMedina]

While I agree with you on some points Steve, you do need to understand a couple of things.

For starters, what happened during the era of Prodigy happened years ago. Yes, there will be egos colliding here and there. That's expected anywhere. But you do have to realize that in the present, you have a slew of new people that were never there during the time during Prodigy. So if talking about how the past was doomed and will reflect on the future, the only ones that would make that come about are the ones that still feel the sting of the past. To be perfectly honest, I think it's unfair to judge these members who never experienced Prodigy (myself included).

Now on the subject of building angles and storylines. Granted, there is a flaw of feuds and such, but who's to say that the match happens with a buildup of a week or two? Why not take every month to build up such a feud? I think the way you are viewing it, you believe, in my opinion mind you, that these things would be rushed. Personally, I'd be very upset and feuds and storylines were rushed in favor of the next title shot. Furthermore, you do have to realize that some leagues have a pretty decent tag roster to make up for the absense of the Unified Tag Titles with their own league titles. In my opinion, the Unified titles should not dwarf a league's specific Tag Titles.

Moving on to helping other leagues bring in tag titles to feud with tag teams that they would never get a chance to: Yes, there should be some reason why team A should face team B. Why not have the titles as a starting point? What point is one tag team to face another other than on a seasonal FW card?

The point of this idea was to give one of the weakest aspects of FW a good kick in the ass. As you know, as well as ever league owner knows, it's a real challenge to buiild a tag roster.

Again, I understand the worries of egos getting in the way and so forth, but if you think negative about this one aspect, what's to say that any other aspect would be positive? Who's to say events like GXW's Battleground Britian was a positive card? Who's to say that there would be more positive cards such as BB? Again, if we can question this aspect of cross-promotion events, then we should question all cross- promotion events.

 

[Steve]

It's not a matter of people on prodigy vs. people on FW central. It's human nature. But if you think it can run smoothly, have at it.

 

[eyoung]

2 cents from eddy

Lots of great arguments above and I can't address them all, but here's my thoughts on what might be killa

#1 of course you keep the current belts. if anything this makes those belts worth more. In the old NWA, I can't imagine that I'm the only one that noticed on Mid Atlantic the US Champ was the #1 contender to the World, but on Georgia Championship the National title was #1 contender (#2 contender in the national mags) of course if you win the big belt you must forfeit the regional.

#2 a crocket cup or battle bowl style event would rock with the characters we have on FW to crown the first champ

#3 the champs could make their rounds doing cards in the different feds, and when they didn't have a compulsary defense I cannot imagine a fed head that wouldn't love to have the Champs show up for a promo and a beat down (I know if my team won it the first thing I'd love to do would be to drop an exhibition) Of course the feds that get shows up faster would be more likely to get an appearance.

#4 It's not that we don't all have egos. I fit that description as much as anyone on the site. I also know who the best RP guys are and in my opinion at least 4 of the guys that I know without a doubt are better than me are the 4 most likely to tank a match to reward someone for a job well done (no, Steve I don't mean you, i said better than me.... that's my story and I'm sticking to it) I imagine if I knew more people on the site that # would be higher. With leadership like that, I doubt you get much belly aching, at least out loud.

#5 As far as determining a champ, I can think of 7 guys right off the top of my head on this site I would trust to make the decisions by themselves without answering to anyone...... but a better system would be for a certain percentage of the fed heads would have to vote for a title change, with the fed head from the challenger being an ineligible vote. Of course Pete Russo would be an ineligible voter because his schill for Steve Radder soiled the CSWA belt ....... forever.

I LOVE the idea...... just tell Kevin Powers to quit calling the LOVE phone, he's stuck in that Dark Circus thing......

Troy, do you still look good doing the Fargo Strut in Pastels??

ed