Well, my work here is done!

[Steve]

The good news is we had discussion on this board.

The bad is, Chad's told me I'm never allowed to post again!

Ha.

On a side-note I think the previous thread proves why a unified title will never work. Oh yes, we've all grown so much!

Everybody's entitled to their own opinions obviously, I just want to steer mine clear of the "FWO needs to die" side of the fence.

I think the league is great, you dont' reach the level it's on now without doing a lot of things right. My distance from it is my own doing. An old dog not putting the time and effort into learning a new trick.

For Justin and crew, don't hate me. Hate Pete instead

Couple points here.

1) There's no right way to do something. We all should be able to embrace that idea and study the opposite way. Like Coach K ripped off Pitino's system in the late '90s.

2) While I would have liked more help getting on fwo cards, and being told who goes over.....i could roll with a angle based fed very easily.

You can look at any fed and pick it apart. CSWA, NFW, any league on FW Central. There's no perfect league. Anybody who says, "I run the perfect league!" is lying.

I would never in a million years say angle based feds don't have great writing, or storytelling. I've read the posts, and cards. I've love to have 95% of their roster in the CSWA.

Angle based generally move quicker, mainly because they have guys who are serious about writing and take the time to turn out stuff on a weekly basis.

Does 2 shows a week get stale? Maybe.

But to suggest going a card or two a month keeps it freash (for Pete), is highly subjective.

The Angle/RP difference really comes down to whether or not you want the competition to surprise you. Whether you do or don't, is fine. There's places for both of us.

As much as I like rping month to month in the NFW in classic RP style, and waiting to see if Melton wins, I enjoy just as much the segments. Maybe more so. Trying to get in Lindsay Troy's pants. Why? Because I enjoy writing it with Lindsay, and some of you if only Tom Sigel enjoys reading it.

Do I do it to 'win'?

No. The thrill is reading what Lindsay adds to the pieces, admiring her writing, and getting a laugh from her when she reads my drafts.

That's what angle based writers are all about. It's the writing.

To not have a competition aspect of it doesn't in any way not make it great storytelling. How could you think so?

Now, not to say angle based means better writing. Just different. One guy hopes to get enjoyment from results, the other from creating pieces and working with other writers.

Personally, i think in rp feds we're so close to being straight angle feds anyway this point is moot to argue.

Re: Eli/Windham.

To suggest that we know the outcome, lessens the writing and that we need new characters is something i don't agree with.

I'd say Pete and I in this angle have put more effort and writing into our characters than what normally goes into a ppv match. The writing, the storylines....are created by us so that the reader when he or she reads the match has more appreciation for the event itself and the outcome, and the storyline that's planned right after the match should hopefully add interest as well.

I don't see how it could be suggested our characters are dead cause there's no competition between us in flash rp style.

While i agree it's an honor to rp against me, it was just as much, if not more fun to write the rp series with Pete, and it'll be fun to plan/write the match with him too.

You don't need the 'rp fed surprise/competiton' to make great writing in fantasy wrestling.

Both ways are fun.

It's all a matter of what floats your boat.

Anyway......my last word. For anyone who responds, in the words of Keith David...

"Let's be NICE............Let's be CIVIL."

 

[PaulNJ21]

The good news is we had discussion on this board.

The bad is, Chad's told me I'm never allowed to post again!

Ha.

On a side-note I think the previous thread proves why a unified title will never work. Oh yes, we've all grown so much!

Truer words have never been spoken ;->

Everybody's entitled to their own opinions obviously, I just want to steer mine clear of the "FWO needs to die" side of the fence.

There are only so many leagues left on FWC so I just don't think there is much leeway for mistakes.

I don't want to be part of an angle league because I believe RPing is a learning process. You figure out what people want and don't want and try to out do your opponent, that is the real fun in it all. I like reading the match and not knowing what is going to happen.

You are taking a lot away from the roleplayer when you take all of that away.

I think the league is great, you dont' reach the level it's on now without doing a lot of things right. My distance from it is my own doing. An old dog not putting the time and effort into learning a new trick.

The main thing they do right is that they give RPers more creative freedom to do what they want to do. You can do that and still do a tradional RP/angle fed.

But to a degree, there has to be checks and balances.

For instance, take Vince Russo. In the WWF he was a genius, but he went to WCW and became the village idiot.

What was the difference?

An editor.

Almost all creative people have editors on some level and that is necessary so that things don't wind up in the murder or rape level that some angle leagues fall to.

I would never in a million years say angle based feds don't have great writing, or storytelling. I've read the posts, and cards. I've love to have 95% of their roster in the CSWA.

It depends on how they would react to an angle/RP league. It is definitely a tough transition.

Angle based generally move quicker, mainly because they have guys who are serious about writing and take the time to turn out stuff on a weekly basis.

I remember the old days on Prodigy and it was great to have cards out so frequently but I don't think that would be as big of a selling point here because we have older RPers who are more patient. When I was younger, I wouldn't have been able to stand waiting for cards so I can see how people would be interested in that but RPing is half the fun.

The Angle/RP difference really comes down to whether or not you want the competition to surprise you. Whether you do or don't, is fine. There's places for both of us.

As much as I like rping month to month in the NFW in classic RP style, and waiting to see if Melton wins, I enjoy just as much the segments. Maybe more so. Trying to get in Lindsay Troy's pants. Why? Because I enjoy writing it with Lindsay, and some of you if only Tom Sigel enjoys reading it.

You can still do group RPing in an RP/Angle league. You don't have to be the FWO to do that.

Do I do it to 'win'?

No. The thrill is reading what Lindsay adds to the pieces, admiring her writing, and getting a laugh from her when she reads my drafts.

That's what angle based writers are all about. It's the writing.

You are still RPing for an audience like you were before except it isn't your opponent. But when people don't have to RP, as the NFW War Games proved, most people don't.

To not have a competition aspect of it doesn't in any way not make it great storytelling. How could you think so?

It is like reading a good mystery novel, the writing can be fantastic but if you know who the killer is, it takes away something and the most important thing, the climax.

Now, not to say angle based means better writing. Just different. One guy hopes to get enjoyment from results, the other from creating pieces and working with other writers.

You can achieve BOTH through a regular RP/Angle league. You don't have to choose one or the other.

Re: Eli/Windham.

To suggest that we know the outcome, lessens the writing and that we need new characters is something i don't agree with.

I'd say Pete and I in this angle have put more effort and writing into our characters than what normally goes into a ppv match. The writing, the storylines....are created by us so that the reader when he or she reads the match has more appreciation for the event itself and the outcome, and the storyline that's planned right after the match should hopefully add interest as well.

I don't see how it could be suggested our characters are dead cause there's no competition between us in flash rp style.

While i agree it's an honor to rp against me, it was just as much, if not more fun to write the rp series with Pete, and it'll be fun to plan/write the match with him too.

Who are you doing all the work for though if you can't enjoy RPing for the match? Angle leagues really aren't much different than god booking a EWR or TNM fed.

You are basically doing all the work of a league president without a fraction of the satisfaction coming from someone else reading and interacting with your work.

I love writing, but I would never want to write my own match because I'd give my opponent too much offense and I'd feel guilty about the offense I did get.

You don't need the 'rp fed surprise/competiton' to make great writing in fantasy wrestling.

Both ways are fun.

Maybe in time I will look at it in a different way, but I still look at wrestling through the eyes of it being a sport and not caring about winning or losing I just don't understand yet.

Paul

 

[jediPREZ]

Two things in response to Paul:

1) fWo isn't coming to FWC as one of its 'leagues'. We're trying to bring them over to diversify what we read and discuss. It will remain on fwowrestling.com. Didn't know if that was your point or not in one of your statements, but I thought it should be clear.

2) Angle fed results aren't known for each match by the whole roster, unless people make it a point to find them out. So the suspense is there for everyone else but the two writers involved...so its kinda like their mystery novel that they deliver to the audience.

 

[Steve]

>It is like reading a good mystery novel, the writing can be >fantastic but if you know who the killer is, it takes away >something and the most important thing, the climax.

Well, in that good mystery novel wouldn't the writer know who the killer is? I should hope.

But the audience doesn't until they hit that chapter. In my time in the FWO i didn't know what anyone else was doing, just what I was doing. So outside my writing, the cards were a fresh read.

Agree with your point about the editor, certainly there should be someone at the top who has the ability to reign guys in if he doesn't think it fits the theme of the league.

>But when people don't have to RP, as the NFW War Games >proved, most people don't.

The angle based crowd and the FW Central crowd move at entirely different speeds. Don't consider that a valid point.

>Who are you doing all the work for though if you can't enjoy >RPing for the match? You are basically doing all the work of a >league president without a fraction of the satisfaction coming >from someone else reading and interacting with your work.

No, as i said working with Pete as an example has been very satisfying. And he generally has read and interacted with my work. That's the upside.

>Maybe in time I will look at it in a different way, but I still look at >wrestling through the eyes of it being a sport and not caring >about winning or losing I just don't understand yet.

That's your choice.

But 'wrestling' as FW today is moderned after hasn't been a sport in what 30 years?

Its not wins and losses, it's 'pushes'. Writing teams. Crash TV.

If you wanna create a FW league that steps out of the mold and doesn't try to mirror generally what we see in wrestling today, awesome. Do it.

But i think largely we still all model ourselves after the WWE, and ECW, and WCW, etc. Setting up 'angles'. Characters.

 

[Dan]

The bottom line is rp and angle feds are two entirely different beasts. I have been in both, I started out on FW Central and since then I have gone to angle feds.

There is absolutely no way you can claim that one type of fed is better than the other. It's a matter of taste. Both rp and angle feds compete, just in different ways. With rp feds the rules are easy, out rp your opponent and you win. With angle feds it becomes a matter of telling the better story and moving up the card. At least that's how I run things.

Paul, I can understand where you're coming from but you need to also understand where the angle fedders are coming from. To us it isn't about winning or losing, you are correct with that. It's about emulating a real federation and telling your character's story. I don't know how I can explain it any better.

-Dan

 

[TheOriginalSE]

Ok, I don't know what to write, but ...

I don't really enjoy angle promotions. I've tried them, found myself yearning for RP feds, so I've stuck with it.

I'm not saying they're stupid or worthless, its just not for me.

As for running an RP fed, well, I guess the toughest part is what happens if no one RPs (HINT HINT all you NEW'ers!!!) .. I guess in an angle fed thats ok ..

As for getting the cards out ridiculously quick, it's a hell of a lot easier in an angle fed than an RP fed ... I was in an RP fed that had a weekly card and I burnt myself out within 2 months (Jan / Feb of this year) ..

But New ERA tries to get its cards out on a 10 day cycle .. which the past two episodes have gone a tad longer (to say the least ) ... but so far, in 2 full months we have put out 2 shows a month ... which isn't bad at all

I don't have a point really, since I haven't been keeping up with the FW general discussion and thus have no clue what this thread is all about besides what I perceived to be angle v rp...

but I did want to take the opportunity to plug New ERA since we do have 8 open slots for singles wrestlers

-sean
owner, new era

 

[Al!]

As I've said in another thread (which no one will likely read )

It depends on if you're a gamer or a writer.

Gamers will like dominantly rp feds.
Writers will like dominantly angle feds.

Now that's not to say that either group is a better or worse writer than the other... those are mentalities.

I'm a gamer.. I'll still whoop the crap out of most people in a straight writing contest.. I just really like the competitive aspect of most games.

I got into wrestling when I didn't know there was kayfabe to be broken in the first place. If I knew when I was 10 that it was fake, I never would have bothered with it. I'd just have spent 30 hours a week playing hockey instead of 29. (God bless Superstars on the old USA network with Lord Alfred Hayes and Mean Gene.)

As stated elsewhere hybrids are superior to either pure RP or pure angle. In many cases there's no difference between the average pure angle fed and reading one of my friend's blogs. Note I say "average" angle fed.

Thanks
Al

 

[TSiegel]

::ops head in:::

Ladies and Gents, forget what I said about Jason Hervey.

WAYNE ARNOLD has returned,

:::Looks at Steve and nods:::

Wayne.

 

[Travis]

I have to say that I've been in RP based feds and never once joined an angle based fed. I've been rping for five years and quite frankly I'm becoming bored with RP based E-Feds. Maybe I need to go in the other direction?