User Poets
The Shadow Pope
- Joined
- Jan 6, 1995
- Messages
- 2,192
- Points
- 36
- Age
- 44
- Location
- Top of the Pile
- Website
- www.valeriansgarden.com
Results are posted.
I'm not really spoiling anything here if you haven't read the show yet, but here's my votes and my notes (some of which followed the winners and some of which did not). Hope it helps the winners and losers in the future rounds and future FW matches in general.
Bonecrusher vs. Deacon
Deacon via no-show.
Alexander Hayes vs. Vincenzo Savonarola
Vincenzo Savonarola via no-show.
Pat Gordon Jr vs. August Joyce
Pat Gordon's first post was a nice continuation of his storyline from the first round: doing this for his father's honor. I thought it set up his second round match very nicely while continuing his storyline. His second built on his first and I loved the analogy to the ships.
August Joyce on the other hand, his first RP was the worst of the RP cliches - a scene that's filmed all the way through but they don't 'acknowledge' it until the middle. Unfortunately, I don't think he was able to turn it around in his second post. The family tragedy has been done so many times it's almost a paint by numbers.
DECISION: Only one set of posts didn't make me roll my eyes.
Vote: Pat Gordon Jr wins 8-2
Henry Dylan vs. Shamon
Two of my favorites from round 1 facing off in round 2 was bound to be epic.
Props to Shamon from the start, referring to "a small Chinese woman" as Chun Li. I liked the concept as a whole, but I was turned off by the Travolta reference as smarmy pop culture, and the My Buddy video since Siegel did that and I made fun of him for it years ago. His second post was a continuation of the same, a slice of life piece that, in my opinion, did little to address the bash-bash-bash that Dylan gave during his two posts.
Henry Dylan did exactly what I hoped he would for his first RP: he took the expectations heaped on him when he beat Kevin Powers and turned them in on themselves. He addressed Shamon, Powers, the fans, the establishment, and all of the expectations on himself in a very effective RP that stuck with continuity. I was equally impressed with his second post, since he hadn't had a reply he did what he needed to with an interview segment. I liked how Dylan didn't dismiss Shamon's gimmick, he addressed it in the context of the FW universe and gave it the weight it deserved.
DECISION: Shamon is far better than he has any right to be, but I think he was too focused on his own 'gimmick' for this round than he was on his opponent. Contrastly, Henry Dylan didn't really give us any new information about his character, his RPs were in the same flavor as round 1, and while it was a fun rehash, it was still a rehash.
VOTE: Henry Dylan wins (5-5). However I would like to see something new from either man in round 3.
John McDonough vs. Jack Harmen
McDonough's first post was brilliant. Exactly what I would expect from a veteran who is anticipating a tough match against another veteran. He was confident in his dialogue without being cocky and he sold how tough Harmen would be. He followed it up with an equally subdued response to Harmen's first manic post and kept consistent, you got the sense that there's a monster inside that he's worked hard to keep under control.
Harmen's first post was McDonough's, times a thousand. Where John was subtle and understated, and a little reluctant to unleash his full potential in the ring, Harmen embraced it and sought it out and pretty much said "All that stuff you're worried about? That's where I'm going." His second was a logical extension, where he took everything McDonough said and twisted it around on itself, making the point that McDonough's fears and reservations are normal, and the truly great use them to their fullest.
DECISION: If I was a fed owner I'd love to sic these two on each other for six to eight months and give one of them the World Title somewhere in the middle for the biggest blowoff match of the year, but in a tournament setting it's one and done and this is by far the toughest match I've had to judge so far.
In the end, it became a matter of, who took what their character has and what his opponent gave him and made it better than the sum of its parts?
VOTE: Jack Harmen wins (5-5).
Jeffrey Roberts vs. Ken Cloverleaf
Typically, I read the RPs and comment on each of them individually in a back and forth and give my overall commentary at the end, but I couldn't do that here. These two know each other and despise each other and their RP thread was the best overall MATCH of the bracket, and deserves to be looked at as such.
Jeffrey Roberts has the edge here, because he has a victory over Ken Cloverleaf. And while Cloverleaf was correct in his assertion that one loss three years ago doesn't change the dynamic, I felt like Cloverleaf was much more on the defensive than he needed to be through most of his posts, though he finished strong.
Jeffrey Roberts is just... creepy, you know? And it's not like most gimmicks where they remind you 'I'm a bad man!' every other line or throw people in front of buses or kill someone in the ring during a sparring session, Roberts is... He's evil and he's a bastard but he just accepts it as a matter of course and makes it your problem to deal with.
On that note, points off for both guys for literal death threats, I get it but it's an unrealistic threat to make. But since you both did it it evens out.
DECISON: Nobody lost this match, which makes it tragic that only one person can win.
VOTE: Jeffrey Roberts wins. (10-10, yes you heard me.)
Shawn Jessica Hart vs. Freddie Sagawa.
SJH's first promo in three words:
"Dizzamn."
"Schiavone'd!"
....No.
I cannot stand the Felicia Hart character as she reads as if she was created solely for the purpose of being SJH's cheerleader. She comes off as a one dimensional idiot with nothing to do except say "Since I agree with SJH that means he has backup so he must be right!" After the first post, I felt like SJH had dug himself into a hole. I was hoping that SJH would have some kind of turnaround in his second post (and maybe leave Felicia chained in the basement). But I think he did a much better job with the second post. I'm still not a fan of the "hidden camera slice of life" segments portrayed as if they're actually on television, but once SJH got into the meat of the PROMO section, I thought he picked right up. I love the juxtaposition of SJH as a total metrosexual with many 'less than manly' hobbies, shall we say, essentially slapping this rough and tough cannibal in the face. Reminded me of Bill Burr in Philadelphia a few years ago, the fans were booing all the comedians so he spent fifteen minutes smashing them and said at the end that he was still going to be selling his CD. I really feel like he came back, and that the decision would all rest on Sagawa's second RP.
The hole I talked about wasn't helped in the slightest by CLW's monologue. Essentially, it was the same as SJH spending twenty minutes talking about how awesome he was, only to get backhanded and start crying. Impact -wise, I mean. CLW shut down every single one of SJH's arguments with a single line here and there, and I think he did it with ultimate style. He had a very valid point - while we all know why SJH picked the match he did to tear apart, CLW was able to say "Good for you, you picked the one where he didn't do what he can. Here's some other examples, bring a barf bag."
The second RP was in a much tougher spot, because it was going up against what I felt was, on a whole, the best SJH post so far. Of course, it was countered by the best Freddie Sagawa post so far.
The way CLW laid out exactly why none of SJH's boasts was a total masterstroke. He laid it out pretty clearly and brilliantly, and it's true - he never said one unkind word about SJH, he let Hart do all the work and all the unraveling for him.
DECISION: It's a shame that SJH drew Sagawa in the second round, because I think Hart rebounded very nicely with his second post and I might've gone in that direction against a lot of the RP battles that I've read if you lift out one of the guys. I just think the Sagawa/CLW combination is virtually unstoppable and I think the rest of Bracket Four has a new favorite.
VOTE: Freddie Sagawa wins (8-2). And it's not a matter of good writing vs. bad writing, this was a case of good writing vs. godlike writing.
Troy Windham vs. Kevin Watson
Dave Alvarez is a tool, he brings up all of these Troy Windham facts but neglects to mention Eli Flair. Claimstakers don't count. Troy didn't save the CSWA from GUNS - he took the title and the CSWA shut down for seven months one card later. Don't rewrite history, Dave.
That said, I still want Troy to be Troy. I enjoyed his first round posts and thought he was still Troy Windham, just internally. Troy can be Troy while pondering his injuries and his legacy, but Troy should not ever apologize or show regret, and Troy did that in his first post. Shame on you, Troy. He came back with a strong finish but the first RP was pretty much fifty-fifty for me.
His second post had a great opener. Many years ago, I was listening to a bunch of comedians smashing each other, and I believe it was Patrice O'Neal who referenced one of Colin Quinn's movies grossing four point six hundred dollars, until someone brought up "Have you noticed, we're making fun of his movie credits? What have the rest of us done?" It's the same with Troy. I talk a bit during my review of Watson's posts about taking off the rose colored glasses from Troy's accomplishments but, to use the same example, you can't point out the ultimate result of Troy's Gold Rush victory without remembering that HE WON GOLD RUSH.
Second post was Troy Windham being Troy Windham, and it was glorious.
Troy was one of the favorites going into this, but Kevin Watson pulled out one of the best replies I've seen in the round with his first post. You can't argue against Troy's accomplishments so there's no point in bothering. The only real defense is taking off Troy's rose colored glasses, and I think Watson did a great job of that.
Example being, Troy brags about winning GOLD RUSH, which he did, but he lost the Unified belt to Dan Ryan like twenty minutes later. Troy usually doesn't bring up that second part. I was really interested in his response to Watson.
After Troy got back to form, Watson had a large mountain to climb, but I think he did. Once again, he didn't dismiss any of Troy's accomplishments as you can't, but he did make fun of them in an effective way, I think, with one simple question: what does the NBA have to do with professional wrestling?
This is where Troy's weaknesses as a wrestler are the most apparent: he's against a guy who works every night and his promos reflect a road- worn weariness that's much more down to earth and believable than Troy's man of wealth and taste.
DECISION: This was the hardest decision of round 4 in my opinion. On one hand, Troy Windham is Troy Windham, one of the two greatest trash talkers I've ever read (the other is Triple X, in case you're curious), and he was in top form for most of his two posts. Troy is very much the celebrity athlete who has done everything in his chosen field except for "that one last detail." Troy comes from a wrestling pedigree where he expects to win everything he goes for, and therefore doesn't really appreciate them, which means you want to see him lose but love to see him win like a good heel should make you.
Kevin Watson, on the other hand, his greatest achievement so far according to him was the least of Troy's accomplishments, being handed the Greensboro belt and forgetting about it. You get the sense that this is also his last shot at something bigger than himself and his low rent low BS approach makes him a natural underdog.
I really wrestled with this. Troy Windham talks up his accomplishments, Kevin Watson exposes them as being irrelevant, Troy responds by reminding him that he at least has accomplishments to call irrelevant, Watson reminds him that they have nothing to do with wrestling, and that if he wants to win he'd better figure out how.
I would have loved to have seen these guys go at it in a later round with a larger (or removed) RP limit to see which would run out of steam first. As it stands, we got top notch writing from two top notch writers, and that was the crux of it.
If this was a wrestling match it would have to be slightly edged to Watson. Unfortunately, his wrestling skill isn't an advantage here since this is a text based medium as opposed to an athletic one.
Like I said, this was the hardest one for me to judge and the longest one to try and figure out.
VOTE: Troy Windham wins (5-5)
I'm not really spoiling anything here if you haven't read the show yet, but here's my votes and my notes (some of which followed the winners and some of which did not). Hope it helps the winners and losers in the future rounds and future FW matches in general.
Bonecrusher vs. Deacon
Deacon via no-show.
Alexander Hayes vs. Vincenzo Savonarola
Vincenzo Savonarola via no-show.
Pat Gordon Jr vs. August Joyce
Pat Gordon's first post was a nice continuation of his storyline from the first round: doing this for his father's honor. I thought it set up his second round match very nicely while continuing his storyline. His second built on his first and I loved the analogy to the ships.
August Joyce on the other hand, his first RP was the worst of the RP cliches - a scene that's filmed all the way through but they don't 'acknowledge' it until the middle. Unfortunately, I don't think he was able to turn it around in his second post. The family tragedy has been done so many times it's almost a paint by numbers.
DECISION: Only one set of posts didn't make me roll my eyes.
Vote: Pat Gordon Jr wins 8-2
Henry Dylan vs. Shamon
Two of my favorites from round 1 facing off in round 2 was bound to be epic.
Props to Shamon from the start, referring to "a small Chinese woman" as Chun Li. I liked the concept as a whole, but I was turned off by the Travolta reference as smarmy pop culture, and the My Buddy video since Siegel did that and I made fun of him for it years ago. His second post was a continuation of the same, a slice of life piece that, in my opinion, did little to address the bash-bash-bash that Dylan gave during his two posts.
Henry Dylan did exactly what I hoped he would for his first RP: he took the expectations heaped on him when he beat Kevin Powers and turned them in on themselves. He addressed Shamon, Powers, the fans, the establishment, and all of the expectations on himself in a very effective RP that stuck with continuity. I was equally impressed with his second post, since he hadn't had a reply he did what he needed to with an interview segment. I liked how Dylan didn't dismiss Shamon's gimmick, he addressed it in the context of the FW universe and gave it the weight it deserved.
DECISION: Shamon is far better than he has any right to be, but I think he was too focused on his own 'gimmick' for this round than he was on his opponent. Contrastly, Henry Dylan didn't really give us any new information about his character, his RPs were in the same flavor as round 1, and while it was a fun rehash, it was still a rehash.
VOTE: Henry Dylan wins (5-5). However I would like to see something new from either man in round 3.
John McDonough vs. Jack Harmen
McDonough's first post was brilliant. Exactly what I would expect from a veteran who is anticipating a tough match against another veteran. He was confident in his dialogue without being cocky and he sold how tough Harmen would be. He followed it up with an equally subdued response to Harmen's first manic post and kept consistent, you got the sense that there's a monster inside that he's worked hard to keep under control.
Harmen's first post was McDonough's, times a thousand. Where John was subtle and understated, and a little reluctant to unleash his full potential in the ring, Harmen embraced it and sought it out and pretty much said "All that stuff you're worried about? That's where I'm going." His second was a logical extension, where he took everything McDonough said and twisted it around on itself, making the point that McDonough's fears and reservations are normal, and the truly great use them to their fullest.
DECISION: If I was a fed owner I'd love to sic these two on each other for six to eight months and give one of them the World Title somewhere in the middle for the biggest blowoff match of the year, but in a tournament setting it's one and done and this is by far the toughest match I've had to judge so far.
In the end, it became a matter of, who took what their character has and what his opponent gave him and made it better than the sum of its parts?
VOTE: Jack Harmen wins (5-5).
Jeffrey Roberts vs. Ken Cloverleaf
Typically, I read the RPs and comment on each of them individually in a back and forth and give my overall commentary at the end, but I couldn't do that here. These two know each other and despise each other and their RP thread was the best overall MATCH of the bracket, and deserves to be looked at as such.
Jeffrey Roberts has the edge here, because he has a victory over Ken Cloverleaf. And while Cloverleaf was correct in his assertion that one loss three years ago doesn't change the dynamic, I felt like Cloverleaf was much more on the defensive than he needed to be through most of his posts, though he finished strong.
Jeffrey Roberts is just... creepy, you know? And it's not like most gimmicks where they remind you 'I'm a bad man!' every other line or throw people in front of buses or kill someone in the ring during a sparring session, Roberts is... He's evil and he's a bastard but he just accepts it as a matter of course and makes it your problem to deal with.
On that note, points off for both guys for literal death threats, I get it but it's an unrealistic threat to make. But since you both did it it evens out.
DECISON: Nobody lost this match, which makes it tragic that only one person can win.
VOTE: Jeffrey Roberts wins. (10-10, yes you heard me.)
Shawn Jessica Hart vs. Freddie Sagawa.
SJH's first promo in three words:
"Dizzamn."
"Schiavone'd!"
....No.
I cannot stand the Felicia Hart character as she reads as if she was created solely for the purpose of being SJH's cheerleader. She comes off as a one dimensional idiot with nothing to do except say "Since I agree with SJH that means he has backup so he must be right!" After the first post, I felt like SJH had dug himself into a hole. I was hoping that SJH would have some kind of turnaround in his second post (and maybe leave Felicia chained in the basement). But I think he did a much better job with the second post. I'm still not a fan of the "hidden camera slice of life" segments portrayed as if they're actually on television, but once SJH got into the meat of the PROMO section, I thought he picked right up. I love the juxtaposition of SJH as a total metrosexual with many 'less than manly' hobbies, shall we say, essentially slapping this rough and tough cannibal in the face. Reminded me of Bill Burr in Philadelphia a few years ago, the fans were booing all the comedians so he spent fifteen minutes smashing them and said at the end that he was still going to be selling his CD. I really feel like he came back, and that the decision would all rest on Sagawa's second RP.
The hole I talked about wasn't helped in the slightest by CLW's monologue. Essentially, it was the same as SJH spending twenty minutes talking about how awesome he was, only to get backhanded and start crying. Impact -wise, I mean. CLW shut down every single one of SJH's arguments with a single line here and there, and I think he did it with ultimate style. He had a very valid point - while we all know why SJH picked the match he did to tear apart, CLW was able to say "Good for you, you picked the one where he didn't do what he can. Here's some other examples, bring a barf bag."
The second RP was in a much tougher spot, because it was going up against what I felt was, on a whole, the best SJH post so far. Of course, it was countered by the best Freddie Sagawa post so far.
The way CLW laid out exactly why none of SJH's boasts was a total masterstroke. He laid it out pretty clearly and brilliantly, and it's true - he never said one unkind word about SJH, he let Hart do all the work and all the unraveling for him.
DECISION: It's a shame that SJH drew Sagawa in the second round, because I think Hart rebounded very nicely with his second post and I might've gone in that direction against a lot of the RP battles that I've read if you lift out one of the guys. I just think the Sagawa/CLW combination is virtually unstoppable and I think the rest of Bracket Four has a new favorite.
VOTE: Freddie Sagawa wins (8-2). And it's not a matter of good writing vs. bad writing, this was a case of good writing vs. godlike writing.
Troy Windham vs. Kevin Watson
Dave Alvarez is a tool, he brings up all of these Troy Windham facts but neglects to mention Eli Flair. Claimstakers don't count. Troy didn't save the CSWA from GUNS - he took the title and the CSWA shut down for seven months one card later. Don't rewrite history, Dave.
That said, I still want Troy to be Troy. I enjoyed his first round posts and thought he was still Troy Windham, just internally. Troy can be Troy while pondering his injuries and his legacy, but Troy should not ever apologize or show regret, and Troy did that in his first post. Shame on you, Troy. He came back with a strong finish but the first RP was pretty much fifty-fifty for me.
His second post had a great opener. Many years ago, I was listening to a bunch of comedians smashing each other, and I believe it was Patrice O'Neal who referenced one of Colin Quinn's movies grossing four point six hundred dollars, until someone brought up "Have you noticed, we're making fun of his movie credits? What have the rest of us done?" It's the same with Troy. I talk a bit during my review of Watson's posts about taking off the rose colored glasses from Troy's accomplishments but, to use the same example, you can't point out the ultimate result of Troy's Gold Rush victory without remembering that HE WON GOLD RUSH.
Second post was Troy Windham being Troy Windham, and it was glorious.
Troy was one of the favorites going into this, but Kevin Watson pulled out one of the best replies I've seen in the round with his first post. You can't argue against Troy's accomplishments so there's no point in bothering. The only real defense is taking off Troy's rose colored glasses, and I think Watson did a great job of that.
Example being, Troy brags about winning GOLD RUSH, which he did, but he lost the Unified belt to Dan Ryan like twenty minutes later. Troy usually doesn't bring up that second part. I was really interested in his response to Watson.
After Troy got back to form, Watson had a large mountain to climb, but I think he did. Once again, he didn't dismiss any of Troy's accomplishments as you can't, but he did make fun of them in an effective way, I think, with one simple question: what does the NBA have to do with professional wrestling?
This is where Troy's weaknesses as a wrestler are the most apparent: he's against a guy who works every night and his promos reflect a road- worn weariness that's much more down to earth and believable than Troy's man of wealth and taste.
DECISION: This was the hardest decision of round 4 in my opinion. On one hand, Troy Windham is Troy Windham, one of the two greatest trash talkers I've ever read (the other is Triple X, in case you're curious), and he was in top form for most of his two posts. Troy is very much the celebrity athlete who has done everything in his chosen field except for "that one last detail." Troy comes from a wrestling pedigree where he expects to win everything he goes for, and therefore doesn't really appreciate them, which means you want to see him lose but love to see him win like a good heel should make you.
Kevin Watson, on the other hand, his greatest achievement so far according to him was the least of Troy's accomplishments, being handed the Greensboro belt and forgetting about it. You get the sense that this is also his last shot at something bigger than himself and his low rent low BS approach makes him a natural underdog.
I really wrestled with this. Troy Windham talks up his accomplishments, Kevin Watson exposes them as being irrelevant, Troy responds by reminding him that he at least has accomplishments to call irrelevant, Watson reminds him that they have nothing to do with wrestling, and that if he wants to win he'd better figure out how.
I would have loved to have seen these guys go at it in a later round with a larger (or removed) RP limit to see which would run out of steam first. As it stands, we got top notch writing from two top notch writers, and that was the crux of it.
If this was a wrestling match it would have to be slightly edged to Watson. Unfortunately, his wrestling skill isn't an advantage here since this is a text based medium as opposed to an athletic one.
Like I said, this was the hardest one for me to judge and the longest one to try and figure out.
VOTE: Troy Windham wins (5-5)
