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BRACKET 1 REACTION THREAD?

TheHopper

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First of all thanks to those who wrote and put it together.....very much appreciated.

Secondly......what do you think? The podcast was very interesting....but for those of you not there......what are your thought son the results?



This should be fun to discuss.....especially a couple of matches particularly
 

Aaron

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I was completely shocked by the outcome of Blaine Hollywood/Zero. I'm not taking anything away from Zero as a writer. But I don't really buy him as a wrestler. I don't have any previous knowledge of his character, and based on what he did post. I didn't get anything out of it.

I _loved_ what Blaine posted. If anything comes out him coming back from this tournament, I hope it's that he decides to stick around and play.

I think Cobra/Dan Ryan was the right decision. Dan Ryan's first rp, is the one I've liked the most out of the everything posted. that said. When I saw the second one, I face palmed. It's like when your favorite band releases an inexplicable turd of an album, but quickly return to form.

Piersons second rp was better than anything I've ever seen from him. So I'm curious to see what he comes up with in the next round, because I really don't see him topping that one, and their could be burnout.

Thirdly. Umpiro as a charatcer. I'd LOVE to see him around. but the right guy went over.
 

DBrunkGXW

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I think Cobra/Dan Ryan was the right decision. Dan Ryan's first rp, is the one I've liked the most out of the everything posted. that said. When I saw the second one, I face palmed. It's like when your favorite band releases an inexplicable turd of an album, but quickly return to form.

Even though I handle Dan Ryan, I LOL'd at this. And you're right, honestly. What can I say? :)
 

blackshire

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I would say that Bracket 1, Round 1 results accomplished the establishment of three undeniable facts:

- ANYTHING can happen in ULTRATITLE. Nothing is given.
- the world didn't end.
- I want more.
 

HeavyMetalHero

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I went 14-1-1 in the bracket in terms of predictions, so above all, I'm just glad I still have it as a judge, after years of not being a fedhead.
 

TheHopper

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I went 14-1-1 in the bracket in terms of predictions, so above all, I'm just glad I still have it as a judge, after years of not being a fedhead.


Is the draw the double no-show of the first match?

I kept saying 14-2....but I guess that makes me 13-2-1 if I count it like that
 

AngerManagement

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I'm listening to the podcast about the results right now--and it was announced there that Dom Jacobs went over El Gordo Grande, originally--that EGG's comedy was good but Dom Jacobs won a close one...and then, when the discussion went back to Zero/Blaine Hollywood, it's mentioned that Zero faces EGG.

All of the posted material says that EGG won.

Just FYI.
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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Congratulations to Zero and Cobra on what I consider major upsets. I'm not going to pretend I liked Zero's RP in that thread, but I do acknowledge the handler as a very good writer (I've said multiple times, I have read his other work and liked it much better), and wish him luck throughout the rest of the tourney. I still had Cobra losing to Dan Ryan, but totally understand why Dan lost. Congrats to Cobra on probably the biggest upset of all time in an FWC tourney. Brunk left you a major opening, and you took advantage. I don't think just any ol' RP would have beaten him there, so good job on sealing the deal.

After the results and podcast, here are really my two biggest issues moving forward:

1) Judges should not remain anonymous. I get that Chad can't force people onto podcasts and whatnot, and that's fine (if your woman catches you on one of those things, kiss that poontang GOODBYE), but judges should at least be expected to post at some length about what they look for. I disagree with what Brunk said on the podcast, that it's as simple as "I just liked the other guy". Everyone here has been involved in a creative hobby for some years now - if you can't manage to provide just a little insight into what you expect from a writer, you really should not be a judging IMO. That's not a knock, because I know for a fact that everybody is capable of doing this, it's just a matter of wanting to. There was a strong precedent set early on that judges were going to be vocal about general criteria so that people wouldn't be in the dark. Now all of a sudden, when decisions are made in favor of characters who did the opposite of what most of the "vocal" judges said they wanted, we're told "Oh, well, not all the judges spoke. There are other, more secretive judges, and who knows what they like!" So come out and tell us! All the other judges plus a crapload of non-judges have been discussing this stuff for a month, you can't do it too?

2) All judges should explain their votes. Going back to #1, again, it would help to know in just a few sentences why you voted the way you did for each match. This is not a lot to ask - most of the judges are already doing this, and others are doing it for fun. Nobody's asking for an essay, just feedback. It all goes back to controversial decisions that seem to fly in the face of what people thought the judges wanted to see, and then learning that non-vocal judges were the ones who voted and probably will not explain anything. For a match like Zero/Blaine, a trash-talking handler is going to look at that and say "OK, if top-notch trash talk loses to inner monologue narrative, does that mean certain judges prefer to see more character development than hype?" It's a fair question. No explanation is going to convince me that the guy I thought won deserved to lose, but it would help everybody out if we had a clue as to why it happened.

People have told me in IM, "Dude, you really expected anything different?" Look, there are a lot of smart people involved in this, there is no reason why, controversial decisions aside, we can't have judges be transparent about this stuff. Most have! I think there's maybe a few who are not saying anything, and that shouldn't be allowed to continue. If you volunteer to judge something like this, where over a hundred people are taking the time to write these time-consuming roleplays, you should be expected to give some feedback that tells us, y'know, you actually read everything and put thought into it.

Some might say, "Meh, it's just a game, let's all hold hands and sing and whatever happens happens", but if that's the standard, then anybody who puts any effort into their writing is a total rube. Don't be the kid who lays down in the outfield, and when people tell you to get up, say, "Who cares? It's not the World Series!" Nobody likes that kid. That kid gets pine combs shoved up his ass.

What I'm trying to say is, don't make me come back here with pine combs. :cool:
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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Yeah, you thought I meant pine CONES? Nah dude. Pine combs. They are like pine cones in the shape of combs. Those f*ckers is serious.
 

The Great Eye

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To me what this all boils down to is that we had a truckload of judges on the Pre-Ultratitle podcast and Chad passed the mic around and got everyone's take on what they wanted to see out of the Rp's in Ultratitle, without those guidelines I'd have taken Tarrasque's opening Rp over Chad Allen's if we were doing a 'free form creative writing contest'. But we said pretty loudly and pretty clearly not to do criminal acts and really do try to stay away from the murder, and Tarrasque got his murder on.

So we had judges who were not on that podcast judging this match and Chad had stated before the tournament that maybe we were going to do a 'meet the judges' sort of thing for each bracket to let folks know who was judging them and what they were looking for but that all fell through.

The point I'm making here is I thought that we'd set ground-rules for the tournament and by those ground-rules (and only those ground rules, I thought Zero was well written and maybe even better than Blaine in a free form creative writing contest.) Blaine Hollywood should have won, but the judges saw otherwise. I think it would be nice to know what those judges standards for judging are and what they were and are looking for in Rp's going forward in Ultratitle, because honestly, I can't imagine any trash talk Rp's would have been better than Blaine's but clearly that panel of judges wasn't looking for that, so he lost.
 

DBrunkGXW

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Well Billy, I thought it was obvious when I said "I just vote for what I like", that I was being a little facetious. The point is, I've already said WHAT I like and why I like it. I'm just not gonna keep repeating myself.
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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Well Billy, I thought it was obvious when I said "I just vote for what I like", that I was being a little facetious. The point is, I've already said WHAT I like and why I like it. I'm just not gonna keep repeating myself.

I know, I wasn't criticizing you per say. You've been very vocal about what your standards are and whatnot. I was more bringing up what you said so others don't run with that and be like, "Yeah, I just like what I like too!" without going into just a bit more detail (if they're a judge, that is). Really this comes down to two or three judges putting a bit more effort in...
 

J The Ripper

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Who ever wrote the Sylo match...

Thank you so much, I understand a lot of people in these parts probably don't know the character but he's a monster...an animal in the ring, I think that squash summed up most of his career (I know Katz and a few others would agree with that ;) )
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
So we're saying the judges did a fairly good job in bracket one with the exception of one match? and that one match has lead to the belief that Chad's hired secret judges who are hiding in shame and should be brought out of hiding and beaten with a stick?

I think it says Jamar is a pretty respected guy that his loss, and the anticipation of his loss before the roleplay started by some has jumped started this discussion.

If the judges made a mess of the entire bracket in our eyes then I think there's something to take to Chad. If you disagreed with ONE match. Come on.

We all can get overly sensitive doing this hobby and some of us hate to lose as silly as that sounds, but get over it.

I know if my character had been beaten by Zero there'd have been barely a sneak from the chorus boys. And that's fine.

In a two rp limit, a lot of these will be close.

I've heard rumors of Gregg pulling out. Why? Yes he's good friends with Jamar. But ITS FANTASY WRESTLING. This was not a personal attack on JN. Let's get real.

I also hope JN doens't take his ball and go home. Take the LL spot and come out spitting fire. And Gregg, as much as I love him, if he advances needs to go back and just be Troy in his rp's.

There are differing styles and some judges (even one or two of our beloved FWC judges) will lean to voting for one style. But let's give this tournament, um, ANOTHER BRACKET to be released before we throw the baby out with the bath water.

Calm down.

If the judges released why they voted for who they did (aside from doing so to Chad) you'd all just rip them to shreds anyway. This discussion cannot not have a happy ending. No reasoning will be good enough.

In closing, I also thought Spooky Doom made an interesting point regarding Blaine on the podcast. Now, in honor of A Time To Kill...imagine Spooky Doom saying this. Then imagine he's from a country that matters.
 

DBrunkGXW

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I know, I wasn't criticizing you per say. You've been very vocal about what your standards are and whatnot. I was more bringing up what you said so others don't run with that and be like, "Yeah, I just like what I like too!" without going into just a bit more detail (if they're a judge, that is). Really this comes down to two or three judges putting a bit more effort in...

I guess I just expect people to be intelligent enough to differentiate and draw the proper conclusions. Could be a mistake. :)
 

DBrunkGXW

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I don't think Spooky had much of a point at all really. He's too Hollywood? Um, ok. That all just reeked of a guy trying to throw something at the wall to attack Blaine.

Look, here's the deal. He lost. It's one match in Jamar's entire life. I lost too. Dan Ryan was a big favorite and I lost. It's really not that big a thing.

And here's the key to calming down about Blaine. I guarantee you Jamar will not post a single word on this here, because I assure you, at most he might shake his head, then go on with his life.

I'm not diminishing Billy and especially Stanton's points. I do think we should have some guidelines in a tournament with so many different possible styles. I think that's a fair point.

But, and I mentioned it briefly in the podcast chat, and Gregg knows I think this.... Quitting the tournament in protest is uber drama queen stuff. Then again, as I told Gregg directly, I would expect nothing less from him. LOL... I don't really think he wanted or needs this tournament anyway. That's how he thinks. He was baited into joining mostly by people not saying he would win if he did.

Furthermore, if he doesn't want to be involved, I'd rather he not be involved anyway.

Summed up -- clear guidelines are a good idea. That's not whining, and it's a very reasonable request. I think judges giving their reasons for voting is a reasonable request as well. I'm judging brackets 2 and 3, and I've planned all along to publically give out my judging notes when I sent in my votes, as soon as those results are posted.

Truth is, in my opinion, if you're going to fed head, or judge, either way, you need to be able to stand behind your opinion on roleplay. If you can't take the heat that comes with people disagreeing with you, maybe you shouldn't judge. Just one man's opinion. I've run EPW for a long time. Not everyone has always agreed with my decisions. Some have stayed for the whole run of the fed, some have disagreed with me enough to leave. I'm fine with that. I have my vision of what's good, I've made it up front and clear, and that's that. I'll stand up and tell you why, and take whatever comes of it. So for me, you should be able to explain your votes.

I will not say that we shouldn't just so some people don't get criticized. As much as we need to get over losses and move on (and we DO), we need to man up and say why people are losing. If we don't like our judging being criticized, well, we need to get over that too.

Losing your s**t over one match is absurd, I agree. I said this before results and I still think the same way. But, again, it's reasonable to ask for explanations. Any fed head would grant this in any fed I've ever been in. I have no idea why ULTRATITLE should be any different, especially when so many different corners of the e-fedding world are represented in this.

So we're saying the judges did a fairly good job in bracket one with the exception of one match? and that one match has lead to the belief that Chad's hired secret judges who are hiding in shame and should be brought out of hiding and beaten with a stick?

I think it says Jamar is a pretty respected guy that his loss, and the anticipation of his loss before the roleplay started by some has jumped started this discussion.

If the judges made a mess of the entire bracket in our eyes then I think there's something to take to Chad. If you disagreed with ONE match. Come on.

We all can get overly sensitive doing this hobby and some of us hate to lose as silly as that sounds, but get over it.

I know if my character had been beaten by Zero there'd have been barely a sneak from the chorus boys. And that's fine.

In a two rp limit, a lot of these will be close.

I've heard rumors of Gregg pulling out. Why? Yes he's good friends with Jamar. But ITS FANTASY WRESTLING. This was not a personal attack on JN. Let's get real.

I also hope JN doens't take his ball and go home. Take the LL spot and come out spitting fire. And Gregg, as much as I love him, if he advances needs to go back and just be Troy in his rp's.

There are differing styles and some judges (even one or two of our beloved FWC judges) will lean to voting for one style. But let's give this tournament, um, ANOTHER BRACKET to be released before we throw the baby out with the bath water.

Calm down.

If the judges released why they voted for who they did (aside from doing so to Chad) you'd all just rip them to shreds anyway. This discussion cannot not have a happy ending. No reasoning will be good enough.

In closing, I also thought Spooky Doom made an interesting point regarding Blaine on the podcast. Now, in honor of A Time To Kill...imagine Spooky Doom saying this. Then imagine he's from a country that matters.
 

DBrunkGXW

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Also, what's with the rash of unregistered guest postings?

YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE SECRET JUDGES!*!*!*~!~!!!!
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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Who said anything about Chad hiring secret judges? Yeah, feel free to be totally ridiculous when painting me in a bad light.

Zero/Blaine helped highlight a problem with the process. By your reasoning, we should wait until everything breaks down in disaster before making any tweaks.

Nobody said the judges did a bad job in round 1. My personal opinion is that the judges got one match brutally wrong (and a few other minor disagreements). No big deal, it happens. What I and a few others didn't know until last night, was that the judges would not necessarily be going off the criteria talked about on the original podcast. All I'm saying is, I think the remaining judges should give us some insight into what they are looking for, and that all judges should have to justify their votes publicly. Why is this so difficult? Most of them are doing it anyway, and nobody has "ripped them to shreds" for it (nice assumption, by the way). Perhaps I was simply misinformed, but the impression I got when this thing kicked off was that judges were all going to talk about their votes.

All it takes is somebody saying, "Yeah, I'm someone who looks for character development and prefer narrative much more so than the type of trash talk we saw from JN" and nobody can say sh*t to that. Then we know that, disagreements aside, there is a panel of judges that are consistent. This method would be much more conducive to avoiding drama. And if they're not being consistent, I mean, yeah, itwould be nice to be able to talk about that stuff in a thread without people going all "Sad Indian" with the tear dripping down their face because "OMG! PEOPLE ARE DISAGREEING ABOUT STUFF!", but I've accepted this as an impossibility.

If you want, put a ban on replying directly to the judges' feedback, or force people to take into PM. I mean, if you really fear discussion that much. I will tell you personally, that I would never go after an individual for voting based on their own standards. We might have debates on what we think is a good standard, but once those choices are made, I would never direct quote a judge and be like. "Wow dude, you value character building? WHAT A F*CKING NOOB! BLAINE FOR THE WIN, B*TCH!"




So we're saying the judges did a fairly good job in bracket one with the exception of one match? and that one match has lead to the belief that Chad's hired secret judges who are hiding in shame and should be brought out of hiding and beaten with a stick?

I think it says Jamar is a pretty respected guy that his loss, and the anticipation of his loss before the roleplay started by some has jumped started this discussion.

If the judges made a mess of the entire bracket in our eyes then I think there's something to take to Chad. If you disagreed with ONE match. Come on.

We all can get overly sensitive doing this hobby and some of us hate to lose as silly as that sounds, but get over it.

I know if my character had been beaten by Zero there'd have been barely a sneak from the chorus boys. And that's fine.

In a two rp limit, a lot of these will be close.

I've heard rumors of Gregg pulling out. Why? Yes he's good friends with Jamar. But ITS FANTASY WRESTLING. This was not a personal attack on JN. Let's get real.

I also hope JN doens't take his ball and go home. Take the LL spot and come out spitting fire. And Gregg, as much as I love him, if he advances needs to go back and just be Troy in his rp's.

There are differing styles and some judges (even one or two of our beloved FWC judges) will lean to voting for one style. But let's give this tournament, um, ANOTHER BRACKET to be released before we throw the baby out with the bath water.

Calm down.

If the judges released why they voted for who they did (aside from doing so to Chad) you'd all just rip them to shreds anyway. This discussion cannot not have a happy ending. No reasoning will be good enough.

In closing, I also thought Spooky Doom made an interesting point regarding Blaine on the podcast. Now, in honor of A Time To Kill...imagine Spooky Doom saying this. Then imagine he's from a country that matters.
 

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