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BRACKET 1 REACTION THREAD?

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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Great point Brunk, that's all I was trying to say. I'm a reactionary kind of guy. If I think something sucks, I'm going to say it. But once the results are in and somebody has given their reason, it's time to move on. If Chad says judges shouldn't have to justify their votes, whatever, then it doesn't happen and I'll shutup about it and enjoy the rest of Ultratitle.

It would just be nice to know that one or two guys are actually reading the roleplays and not throwing darts at the board to pick a winner. That's not a critique of the Blaine/Zero judges, because for all I know, people accidentally made the RIGHT choice by darting. :)
 

User Poets

The Shadow Pope
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I've been big on the bandwagon for judge notes being public (and I'm of the "Could'a gone either way" camp), not for the reasons everyone seems to thing - "HOW COULD YOU VOTE LIKE THIS WHATS WRONG WITH YOU" but much less dramatically - "Here's what I liked, here's what I didn't like, here's the turn that caused me to vote one way or the other."

Constructive criticism helps everyone.
 

Ford

UTA Hall of Famer and All-Around Nice Guy
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As a judge of bracket two that cannot make the podcast on Tuesday, I will be giving my results on an independent podcast scheduled outside of Chad's. I invite any other judge that can not make Chad's podcast to join me if they so choose. I will schedule it around whoever wants to join in(plus my job hours) and we will figure out the best time for all parties interested.

I have nothing to hide and will stand by my decisions. Plus, I'd like to think, as Pete said, people want constructive criticism.
 

TH

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I was also planning on posting my judgment rationales for each bracket I had after their results were up anyway. That being said, I'm not entirely sure that calling out judges to post what they thought is the best way to get them to give their opinions. I get it, you're pissed at a result. It's a game, we can all move on.

I speak from experience that no judge is out there looking to put over their "own" talent. I've had people accuse me of doing that with TEAM from WfWA when only one of their guys made the final four of a tournament that they thought should've cleaned up on. I had them DEMANDING I give my reasonings for voting their guys low, and then when I did, it wasn't good enough and they swore that there was some objective quality their writing had that had it over Nova, Tchu and anyone else who ended up placing over their vaunted guys. Hell, they even threw Christian Light under the bus, and he was their guy who placed 4th.

The best was the thread over at their site, where I tried to play peacemaker, got ripped apart, and then saw that they finally played nice when Lindz went over and said the same damn things I did. Because God forbid they offend a girl (no disrespect to Lindz, but do you ****ing imagine how I felt when that happened?).

So in short, I really have no sympathy for people who have wide-sweeping calls for judge transparency. I agree, it'd be nice if we were all open, but you attract more flies with honey. Sorry Billy.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Hey! This is Gregg.

I know I'm being a diva and am overreacting. But here are two points:

1) Blaine absolutely killed it in his RPs. KILLED it. I've been doing FW since its start. I know a good RP when I see one. JN wrote two outstanding RPs. On top of it, he had to write these against a character who was in a completely different style who didn't even address his opponent and barely addressed the title. JN had a more difficult time responding to a character who wasn't even in the same universe.

2) I don't think Zero wrote a good RP. I don't see how this was "subtle." The storyline isn't unique -- there were a bunch of other characters in this bracket alone who are doing the "I was retired but struggling in life and am returning" bit. And JN's note had plenty of subtleties in the descriptions -- pink polo shirts with popped collars, etc.

3) I knew going in JN was going to lose. And it's pretty clear to me why: People like narrative style better. If JN's note in script format couldn't win, then I don't see how any note in how we came up writing will win. And a bunch of us predicted from the start that was going to happen. It's not like how Brunk lost for making a real risky choice. Or how I could very likely lose for going a different route than I normally do. It was a stylistic preference.

I really seem like I'm coming down on Andy. And it's nothing personal against him. I was briefly in the CSWA with him and he was a good guy. And everyone I talk to the most on here respects the hell out of him. His notes were well-written -- but there's a difference between well-written and good RP.

4) Why do you think I wrote Troy differently than how I normally do? The guy I RPd against is very good. But there is a general "If Gregg let Troy be Troy" thing that I can see that I probably would have won if I did the usual style I use (and even that's iffy since Dewey's a great character). If I was to stay in the script format that JN and I use, as soon as I came up against a well-regarded narrative guy I would probably lose. So I decided to try and go in a style I've never used before in order to get used to writing in the only way I can possibly win.

5) I thought about quitting and Chad talked me down. I don't want to "take my ball and go home." I'm pretty sure Dewey's upsetting Troy anyways, so it's all for naught. But if Troy DOES win, I'll stay in it. And if I was judging that note... I'd vote Dewey.

6) Yes -- I didn't want to be in this. I kind of got baited into coming in. I'm an overcompetitive jerk at times and always want to do my best. I also thought that having a big name like Troy in the tournament would help give it credibility. So I decided to join up but I probably shouldn't have since, inevitably, I was going to pull a diva move.

7) The only reason I'm discussing this so much is because of how much I love FW. It's been (sadly?) a major part of my life. I really just want this hobby to evolve so people can write in whatever style they want but everyone's still on an even playing field, ESPECIALLY in a head-to-head tournament like this.

I think the way to do this is simple -- always have your RPs framed in a way for a fictional audience to watch. Script format makes this incredibly easy. But narrative format has a lot of room for creativity in fitting that in. That's the way to connect the different styles. If a note is like how Zero's was, it's not even in the same universe as a character like Blaine's. It's internal thoughts.

Seriously -- that's an evolutionary step and a good compromise. And it's not hard to do. A lot of narrative guys do this already.
 

vastrix

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But we said pretty loudly and pretty clearly not to do criminal acts and really do try to stay away from the murder, and Tarrasque got his murder on.

I know it's my bad for not listening to the slew of podcasts that had been put out (computer seems to hate to do any streaming for some reason), but are these guidelines actually, clearly posted someplace? I seemed to have missed that bit.

Still a loss is a loss and that's certainly fine, but I just hate losing because of rules that I managed not to see. Could be a blindness on my part though.
 

Dr Curiosity

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If I get eliminated in Bracket Two, I'm totally boycotting all future RP rounds over this.Unless I'm a lucky loser.
 

Zezu

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This should be good when half the matches aren't versus Jobbers :]

When does the picketing start?
 

Zezu

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I have a Batman costume on... ready to scale Buckingham Palace if need be
 

J The Ripper

FWrestling's Reckoning
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I have a Batman costume on... ready to scale Buckingham Palace if need be

Do it...if for no other reason....just to give the Irish in me another point over the Scottish....do it...it will please me...*finger steeple*
 

LQJT86C

Where's my money, Chad?
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I was also planning on posting my judgment rationales for each bracket I had after their results were up anyway. That being said, I'm not entirely sure that calling out judges to post what they thought is the best way to get them to give their opinions. I get it, you're pissed at a result. It's a game, we can all move on.

I speak from experience that no judge is out there looking to put over their "own" talent. I've had people accuse me of doing that with TEAM from WfWA when only one of their guys made the final four of a tournament that they thought should've cleaned up on. I had them DEMANDING I give my reasonings for voting their guys low, and then when I did, it wasn't good enough and they swore that there was some objective quality their writing had that had it over Nova, Tchu and anyone else who ended up placing over their vaunted guys. Hell, they even threw Christian Light under the bus, and he was their guy who placed 4th.

The best was the thread over at their site, where I tried to play peacemaker, got ripped apart, and then saw that they finally played nice when Lindz went over and said the same damn things I did. Because God forbid they offend a girl (no disrespect to Lindz, but do you ****ing imagine how I felt when that happened?).

So in short, I really have no sympathy for people who have wide-sweeping calls for judge transparency. I agree, it'd be nice if we were all open, but you attract more flies with honey. Sorry Billy.

Judge transparency isn't a bad idea because you had one bad experience with TEAM. On the other hand, I'm not suggesting it is needed because of ONE potential bad call. Again, the podcast discussion last night (which centered on Blaine/Zero) led to Chad saying that not all the judges were expected to provide reasoning for votes, something that surprised me and a few others, and now here we are. It's a good thing that one small controversy has led to this discussion; that's how models improve.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to say "I get it, you're pissed at a result, it's a game, move on" when I clearly stated it wasn't about results. Judge transparency doesn't guarantee a good or bad result, but it lets people know that we have competent, critical-minded people reading over all the work people spend time writing. Some might spit up their soda at the thought that I don't automatically vest faith in anybody who signs up to be a judge, especially when most of those people are respected, but it wouldn't matter if me and all my good friends were calling this thing - it's an expectation that should be there in a big tournament like this.

If the goal is to avoid drama, that went out the door as soon as ULTRATITLE was announced. It's a tournament, people are going to be dissatisfied every round because we're picking winners and losers. So what? Let it happen. Let people vent, and when the judges make their reasoning, that's the end of it. If people start attacking judges personally for their subjective views, I dunno, it's a forum - the admins can use their discretion as to what's appropriate like they would do for anything else. This doesn't need to be complicated!

Drama is more likely to result from less openness than more, as has already been the case. It's nice that most of you have chosen to be open, but I really don't think it should be an option. You volunteer to judge, you should be expected to show that you're actually, you know...judging.
 

Deacon

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Who ever wrote the Sylo match...

Thank you so much, I understand a lot of people in these parts probably don't know the character but he's a monster...an animal in the ring, I think that squash summed up most of his career (I know Katz and a few others would agree with that ;) )

I spent a bit of time reading the RP prior to the match & it seemed to be a great way to "Open" my section of the match writing. Thanks for showing some appreciation. If I do something wrong, I'm pretty sure I'd hear it. When I do something right, it's nice to know I didn't screw up a character I didn't really know.

And of course, great job giving me the info I needed to pull it off!
 

J The Ripper

FWrestling's Reckoning
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I spent a bit of time reading the RP prior to the match & it seemed to be a great way to "Open" my section of the match writing. Thanks for showing some appreciation. If I do something wrong, I'm pretty sure I'd hear it. When I do something right, it's nice to know I didn't screw up a character I didn't really know.

And of course, great job giving me the info I needed to pull it off!

Well you nailed it. I'm not trying to verbally jerk someone off here but you were able to mix in the intensity Sylo brings, the raw power, you used a move not a lot of people tie into his matches including me (the three faces of sin) and you actually used one of his newer moves to finish the match which was a nice touch...he hasn't used that move but once so far I believe. Over the past couple of years I've been adding more of a MMA aspect to Sylo, he's trained, so seeing Lesnar back in action made me face palm :p. Now, if someone messes around and has Sylo pull off the one move he's only done ONCE I'll be shocked :D lol.
 

SpookyDoom

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I don't think Spooky had much of a point at all really. He's too Hollywood? Um, ok. That all just reeked of a guy trying to throw something at the wall to attack Blaine.

No, I said he was too close to the classic Hollywood archetype for me to appreciate his character. I said he was too close to existing wrestlers who milked the "I'm from Hollywood" gimmick for it to be interesting, such as Austin Idol...

I probably got cut off by Billy and you didn't hear the whole thing.

More thoughts later on when I'll have the time to type. I think for me the biggest upset is Gordo Grande going over Dom, but I'll have to reread these two again to see if this is justified.
 

TH

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There's a difference between drama and dialogue. The latter prevents the former if it's done right. I agree that judges should be transparent, but at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want a judge to be forced into giving his/her opinions on a matter only because there was an outcry against the silence. That causes way more problems than what's worth for a game.

I get that we're all super competitive here, and if not, then hey, what's the point, right? But perspective is needed. Take a deep breath, get it out of your system and try not to take it out on anyone that you lost. It's better than DEMANDING that judges show their work, so to speak.

ETA: I also get why people would want to see why they lost or someone they thought should have won lost. That's why I'm planning on posting, and some others probably are too. But again, tone is important.
 

SpookyDoom

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Okay, now on the topic of judge transparency, since I do have a few moments...

I'm against it, but accepting it as the lesser of two evils.

Listening to the podcast, I was glad to hear a judge (didn't catch his name) tell us he had put off reading the promos until the last moment so that he could form an unbiased decision. Kudos. I also hope that judge stayed the fuck away from the prediction threads so as to not let himself be influenced by popular opinion. Popular opinion will kill the impartiality of the judges and favor those handlers who've been here the longest, who know and worked with the judges in the past and who are better placed to put pressure on them. Drama won't disappear because it's talked about openly. In fact, it'll promote even more drama as the discussion over the victors overshadows the ULTRATITLE itself.

Match discussion should be left to the participants. Match judging is a totally seperate affair. I don't want to see the two mixed together because participants have no business influencing the results.

EDIT: I'm totally fine with private message justifications on wins and losses, handlers asking judges why they won/lost as long as this is never spoken about on the forums. I guess with judges being kept somewhat anonymous (or maybe it was spoken once in a thread and I forgot about it), messages should be sent to Chad who can forward them to the relevant parties.
 

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