NFW Presents: Crash XII

[jediPREZ]

What's up everybody.

NFW just completed its Week 12 show and I hope y'all enjoy it. It was different due to all the matches being special challenges.

LINK: http://nfw.fwrestling.com/CrashTV/2003Results/Week12/I.htm


Thoughts?

Feedback?

Comments?



Thanks for reading!

 

[Al!]

After reading the card I have two immediate feelings.

The first is a feeling of blah. I can't put my finger on it, but it didn't seem like the card really flowed. It could be because there were a lot of break points.

I don't necessarily think that this is a bad thing. Weather's been getting better and we could all be heading into the summer doldrum of writing that hits every year. I know my stuff wasn't up to the par that I like to write at.

The second is a feeling of either annoyance or disconnect. As others have stated before the style of card we're writing is a heterogeneous mix of styles and some weeks it pulls off fine. Others it looks like a train wreck. I think part of my annoyance stems from the NFW East stuff which I detest not for the writing, which is good, but because of the radical change of pace between East and the other two divisions.

On one hand I'm not supposed to take what happens over there seriously as a reader because it's so campy.

On the other I'm suddenly supposed to take it seriously when a guy comes out of the rafters like Batman wielding flags of all things and levels a major antagonist. All the power to Manson in the world, he's a great character, but mixing the two motifs.. dunno. I'm not quite buying in yet.

My feedback would be to keep East seperate or go camp all over the fed so at least the feel of everything would be similar even if the writing styles weren't.

Hopefully this doesn't come off poorly. That wasn't my intent.

All that out of the way.

Wrestler of the Night goes to Shizaki.

Match of the Night for me was the SDS 6 man tag. It was nice to find myself involved even marginally in something I didn't write and it was nice to see people from different conferences in the same ring.

Segment of the Night or segments go to Monkey Highlander for comedy value and Southern Hospitality (Douglas) for storyline build value.

-Al

 

[Manson]

Ai- The East is supposed to be different from the rest of the NFW, otherwise, there's not much point doing it. As for the shift in pacing and style, that's just what happens when there's more than one writer.


eyoung- The midgets are tremendous. I only wish I had thought of them first (though I would have liked to have seen Little Mel Gibson). Sacriledge is thy soundbite sounds exactly like something I'd have Manson say.

 

[Al!]

To reply -

Here's the thing with being different though man. There's a little bit different.. and then there's Porn of the Rings different.

A little bit different - The division is run by a guy who makes porn movies and may or may not be criminally connected. The T&A in the division is more pronounced, the feel is goth or fetish and in general its a bit dark.

A lot different - There are random people "beaming in" during commentary. The characters are wildly stereotypical and the majority of the talent are fake versions of other divisions' talent. There are monkeys having combat and the laws of reality/sanity as we know it may or may not apply.

The product you guys are generating is worthy of its own show. It's good stuff but doesn't fit with the major storylines in the other divisions. So when you come out of nowhere to join in the interference at the end of the card it's really, really pronounced.

That's all I'm getting at.. It's not bad, it just needs its own space.


...and as far as Midgets go.. every fed needs midgets.

Al

 

[jediPREZ]

Just one comment:

Next Week's Interconference Match includes an East Tag Team with Manson on it. It was my decision for Manson to arrive at the end to segue into XIII as it will be an important match next week.

 

[JLevinson]

I was going to stay out of it, but I couldn't.

The thing is... you see a huge difference between the NFW East and everything else. You say the same laws of physics don't apply.

But by the very same token, your matches are seemingly entirely different than the rest of the card. Shizaki/Southern is written like a regular match with guys commenting on it. Your match is writting like some great epic, where I know everything that's going on and how it makes people feel. But I also feel like it lacks the excitement because it's less a wrestling match and more a "this is the Story of Aidan Campbell's Life as a Wrestler."

Your style is your style, and that's fine. I'm not here to condemn it. But for you to say that the NFW East is out of place while your own matches are huge leaps away from everything else, well, it just seems... odd.

Anyway, props to you all. NFW East and the AC match were both really good. They were just both extremes of completely different styles, but overall, I think it works fine. I have no trouble switching from NFW East back to North, just as i have no problem from basically going from reading play-by-play to reading some story about a match.

Thanks for the nod for Shizaki, though. Sometimes I wonder if anyone even cares if I'm RPing one of the most stereotypical characters ever, mwa hahahaha.

Also, major props to Katz (great matchwriting as usual) and Jason Martin, who I massively enjoyed RPing against. It's been awhile and it was a ton of fun.

Have a good one.

 

[Al!]

JLevinson -

You're absolutely right about my style being different, and if you look at my first post you'll notice I even mention that.

My comments aren't about a style of writing. They are about a radical difference in setting and character type.

My writing style and the story I tell as a result of the merits of that style is different, I will agree with you, but it's not the kind of difference that NFW East carries and not what I'm addressing.

You'll also note I say it's not a bad thing. East does at times feel like a wholly different show. I have no problem with anyone's styles or differences. I just get antsy when styles and differences mix in one piece.

Now about the entrance that Katz scripted.. I'd just have had him beam in with Nimoy and have Nimoy as a special guest at Ringside next week but that's just me.

Al

Edit: Personally I think my own match sucked a big wad. I had absolutely no floon writing it.

 

[Steve]

Great card guys, enjoyed reading it.

(Ed laughs)

All writing is subjective, goes without saying.

The East stuff is different, but that's the point. I don't mind it now, but i'd hope when playoff time hits the screws become a little tighter.

A lot's been said in other posts on the board, about narrative vs classic rp style. And imo the same punchline fits here. It's up to the league president to either draw a line in the sand or not.

The general comments were "We're writing a tv show here.."

If that's true, then I agree everything should flow and be uniform, and it's the presidents job to edit, tie the loose ends, and reign the creative cannons in.

I don't know that I've seen a league that really goes for that approach. Has a show outline it gives to the writers and desires to make the sum of its part equal a whole. I.E create a script that could be sent to McMahon if wrestling accepted spec screenplays.

But, we write for ourselves mostly. We're working from a loose outline, often times with no real idea where our segment will go.

No problem for me there. But, i agree with Josh if we're going to use the "out of place" argument...then we need to be certain we know what we're asking for.

It's either a loose guideline where Katz is thankful for anyone who does good work, or we follow weekly outlines, Katz has more say in what we write, and there's probably more work put in to making the card read in perfect harmony.

That'd be a neat experiment, for sure.

But I've never bought into the idea that we're writing a "joint teleplay."

Doesn't mean I'm opposed to trying it that way though.

 

[SouthernBoy]

I'm staying out of the style argument this time

Great card as usual, more wrestling this time which I dig.

Southern/Shizaki was great Katz.

The East was the East, Mike is crazy ... but it's a good kind of crazy

For the second card in a row, I'll give WOTW honors to the guy I was up against. Great RPing against you Josh.

Sorry to everyone for not being as active as usual. Things have started to settle down just a bit, and I should be able to get more stuff done in the future.

Jason

 

[JABolich]

I'm gonna buck the trend here. I didn't like the show at all.

It's starting to feel like most of us don't mean anything. By "Us" I'm referring to most of the handlers who haven't been around since 1998 or earlier. Seems like there's a group of old-school handlers who are reaping all the rewards while the rest of us are just chopped liver.

Then again, I say this because I've been against the direction of the fed since All-Star Week and have told Katz so on many occasions. It's just not fun anymore when the roleplay takes a backseat to angles I don't understand between people I know only through reputation who've been on top of the circuit for years now. Us new guys seem to have no place in NFW anymore, because it's become the Prodigy Lovefest Show where newer folks are irrelevant. I can only take so many pointless run-in clusterf**k finishes before I start to go bananas.

The card was well-written, of course. I just don't like where the writing is going.



Well, except the NFW East, which rules. It's nice to be able to laugh at something, especially when I pretty much hate everything else.

 

[Al!]

Great card guys, enjoyed reading it.

(Ed laughs)

All writing is subjective, goes without saying.

The East stuff is different, but that's the point. I don't mind it now, but i'd hope when playoff time hits the screws become a little tighter.

A lot's been said in other posts on the board, about narrative vs classic rp style. And imo the same punchline fits here. It's up to the league president to either draw a line in the sand or not.

The general comments were "We're writing a tv show here.."

If that's true, then I agree everything should flow and be uniform, and it's the presidents job to edit, tie the loose ends, and reign the creative cannons in.

I don't know that I've seen a league that really goes for that approach. Has a show outline it gives to the writers and desires to make the sum of its part equal a whole. I.E create a script that could be sent to McMahon if wrestling accepted spec screenplays.

But, we write for ourselves mostly. We're working from a loose outline, often times with no real idea where our segment will go.

No problem for me there. But, i agree with Josh if we're going to use the "out of place" argument...then we need to be certain we know what we're asking for.

It's either a loose guideline where Katz is thankful for anyone who does good work, or we follow weekly outlines, Katz has more say in what we write, and there's probably more work put in to making the card read in perfect harmony.

That'd be a neat experiment, for sure.

But I've never bought into the idea that we're writing a "joint teleplay."

Doesn't mean I'm opposed to trying it that way though.

All I can say about this is the whole teleplay v. narrative thing is such a charged argument that it's probably best to avoid the whole thing altogether.

It's almost as bad as the rp v. angle argument only it has some basis where as rp v. angle is all preference as everyone who rps does angle stuff and vice versa.

There will be people who take off if we go full narrative and I'd probably jump ship if we went teleplay only. Everyone needs to have fun doing what they want to do and no one needs to feel ignored or unwanted.

Now as far as the comment about the Prodigy guys and old timers who've been on top of the circuit. Campbell's beaten in the last four weeks.

Garvin, Hornet, and Southern and due to angle lost to Ryan.

I am an original member of NFW but I essentially took a four year hiatus and was never on prodigy. I am essentially a new guy. There's no reason why other new guys can't do well. Talk to Katz, write some stuff, get involved and you'll do well..

I promise..

(for all that's worth)

Al

 

[JLevinson]

Bolich:

That was some funny ****. I totally hear you. I know a lot of the old Prodigy stuff, but my character doesn't, so it can be very frustrating.

Al:

I think you just came to the whole point in the first place. The argument is very charged, and as in any subjective argument, narration vs. teleplay has no real winner because it's all opinion.

My problem is that while I don't personally dig the narrative style as much, I think it has its place, and I've tried not to condemn you or anyone else for it. Like Katz said, I'm an old man with old habits that die hard.

That said, I feel that Mike should have the freedom to write the NFW East stuff in his own style just as much as you have the right to your own... you gave me a good quote.

Everyone needs to have fun doing what they want to do and no one needs to feel ignored or unwanted.

Exactly. Mike likes writing his insane NFW East stuff, and a lot of people love it. You love writing your narrative stuff, and a lot of people love it.

But here you are, saying that the NFW East stuff is completely out of character and doesn't really have any business being rolled into the same show, but someone could make the exact same case that your writing style doesn't belong in a show. Either way, I think it's overstepping the bounds to say that what someone is doing doesn't "fit in" with what you think it should be.

Like I said... I think they both have their place. NFW is a huge collection of ideas from a LOT of different people, so it's no surprise that guys like Bolich feel left behind in all the insane storylines and whatnot.

So... I liked it. It's not for everyone. And it's a lot of work. But I think as long as people are doing their best, and trying to do right by everyone else... it'll all be good.

That is, as long as I don't lose. ;-)

 

[Al!]

(Since now I know your name is Josh)

Hi Josh

Putting it the way you've put it makes good sense to me.

The only issue I had with your premise was the comparison of a writing style difference as it pertains to the reality of a card to a actual theme difference to the reality of a card.

Writing styles can be overlooked for the most part from a reality standpoint. So you know that so and so thinks a certain thing, so what... the rest of the people in attendance at the show don't.

Theme changes are more of a problem because you're likely mixing different aspects that don't necessarily fit. Say you're writing something about the old west and a bunch of red shirts beam in and blast stuff.. this is problematic from a reality and believability standpoint.

That being said East is not as bad as my argument above, and I probably wouldn't have had any issue at all while reading it if the Manson appearance had been a bit more subdued at the end of the show. It's obvious Mike enjoys writing what he's writing and I'm happy that he does his thing.

On the old man comment, I'm 31 and have been actively involved in RPing or FW/EW since 1994-5ish. (Edit: RPGs and other stuff for a lot longer) Old dogs can learn new tricks. If you look at all my early work in NFW it was all teleplay.

Somewhere along the line RPing stopped being about just trying to win matches and started being about dealing with some of the problems in my own life in a constructive way. At that point I switched to narrative. As a note to anyone that reads AC.. just about every conflict that happens outside the ring and in some cases with nagging injuries too has it's mirror in my own life.

The weeks I do really well you'll know why. The weeks I don't it's probably because I didn't connect.

Which is the basis of my statement about people needing to do what they want and have fun, because I probably ain't the only one playing a little too close to home.


Later
Al

 

[Steve]

Okay. I think it's time for a Festivus Airing Of Grievences.

Mine: That Lindsay has double timed me with Brunk, Russo, and whoever else!

See what you've done? Now I've had to go out and rp with Sigel! Oh the Horrors!

hehe. I kid Tom. I kid because I love

And speaking of love...two people have a very special birthday next month.

>>It's starting to feel like most of us don't mean anything. By "Us" I'm referring to most of the handlers who haven't been around since 1998 or earlier. Seems like there's a group of old-school handlers who are reaping all the rewards while the rest of us are just chopped liver.>>

There seems to be two different arguments in there.

One is a beef with the All-Star weekend/UWA angle. And the other is that the league is titled towards rewarding Prodigy guys.

Re: All-star weekend. Not everyone agreed with it. But, as a FW Die-hard, who is toying with the idea of creating a Japanese league where some of your inactive characters will get use, I don't see how anyone can begrudge Jamar, Gregg, and Gumballs for wanting to use their characters in an angle they've repeatedly said will benefit year 2.

Now...I've said in the past I wasn't a fan of it. If it could be done again, and we all voted...I wouldn't vote to use it. But, good stuff is coming for it. I think it's up to all of us, to jump in and drink from the water. As opposed to going thirsty.

I can see where you're coming from on that front. The only advice I have is to say, 'screw it'...and have some fun.

Re: The Prodigy Kings.

If you're saying you're involvement has been hurt by older characters, let's here why.

"I should have won this match, but..."

or...

Maybe your'e just tired of reading the same names. At any rate, let's hear why you feel slighted.

I think in large part you get what you give in the league. If you're unhappy in the league, then it stands to reason not too many things emitting from the NFW will make you happy.

Maybe I'm just clueless but I didn't think we had that many Prodigy guys.

All I can say is, I believe NFW version 1 refused to go after the 'old names'. Katz's dream is probably to have a league entirely of new guys, and where no one drops out.

I know all three of them mark more heavily over new handlers/characters than anyone I know of.

And we old handlers.....there wasnt exactly 40 guys knocking on the door. Jon's had people leave, to boot. If we old men fill the gaps...don't hold that against him.

I personally didn't join thinking or striving to have Melton win. Now, Chad did...and he's one on the side of "we probably won't win because we've been around."

Basically i think it's silly to debate this. To say new guys don't have the same chance, or get slighted...i think that's bull****.

I'm not saying you're wrong to sour on the league, or that you may not have legitimate grips with how you're character has been handled. But to draw it all in a big lump of "new vs old..."

Come on, we're better than that.

 

[eyoung]

on JABolich's concerns

Up front at this point I've skimmed the card in some detail, but not read it completely. I am medium old time going back to 1998, but I know none of the old prodigy back story.

I think we've all had the feeling's that JABolich stated at some point in our FW careers, but I think he is a little harsh on the suits with this analogy. In fact I made Katz stroke my ego a bit the other night because I felt my stuff was falling on deaf ears in NFW, but I'm not ready to agree with Bolich as to why.

1) The top stories in NFW are still the guys that have been here all year that are writing the best stuff.

2) The SDS teams are part of a story that Jamar/Katz are counting on to make everyone stick around for season II, so give them some loose chain to tell this story and see how it applies to everyone. They did after all leave the North completely off a show to keep everyone from getting lost in the shuffle.

3) (To defend myself) If you are including Eddy Love in the 1998 guys who are reaping rewards to your chopped Liver, I adamately disagree. I have gone above and beyond to try and make Eddy pertinent to the guys and gals who are new to him. Eddy has been booked twice against the old timers which is not of my doing but has repeatedly tried to sell the Shane Southern and Linday Troy Stories right down to writing the Love beat down by Southern and the Southern steals Love's mink myself. I did a whole segment this time blasting Strife and Manson. I've had Mathews' manager on the Eddy Love show. Eddy busted Ryan's knee on his 1st show, so yes the big story for Love is supposed to be his long awaited show down with Deacon, but I have tried my ass off to intertwine his story with the guys who are new to me so that you care when Eddy does finally kick that mute freak's ass. Eddy called no less than 11 names in his first 3 interviews, most of which were not old timers. I have not had much interaction with the North characters, but my story was supposed to be getting Joey Melton over in the South, so the North really wasn't my conference to sell. Things will change now because I found it hard to sell a character who's handler NEVER READS THE CARDS and dumped the Love/Melton angle. But I don't agree that Eddy is getting props at the newer guys expense.


4) I think Bolich posted one RP last show, and nothing on the card. The North has been not extremely active since Manson left, maybe that has left a not important feel to your character.

5) As Jamar once told me when I was NFW with another character, "The cream always rises to the top". Storyline will keep someone or something over in the short term, but the guys who do the best RP and best Angles will ultimately reap the reward of being the most visible on the card.

Now I will take my first swipe at the suits so I figure Eddy gets punked next week.

I think yall have lost a little focus on the one thing that makes NFW unique and that is the season and playoff format. I think the playoff implication idea should be a bigger part of the story that is being told, but who cares what I think.

ed

 

[QueenOfTheRing]

Okay. I think it's time for a Festivus Airing Of Grievences.

Mine: That Lindsay has double timed me with Brunk, Russo, and whoever else!

See what you've done? Now I've had to go out and rp with Sigel! Oh the Horrors!

Ohhh quitcherb*tchin. And stop being Mr. Sporadic(k).

heh.

Tom...now you see what I have to put up with.

 

[TSiegel]

Stevie's gettin' a SPANKING, STEVIE'S GETTIN' A SPANKING!!!

Wait....nevermind....due to the person giving it, he might like it.

But just so we've got the record straight Steve......don't you dare forget Jeff, Jarrat, and Steve Aylward,

 

[TSiegel]

Lindsay--

Been there and done that just BARELY before you, lol.

 

[Steve]

I forgot there were more. Thanks Tom!

Oh..the pain comes rushing back again!

 

[TSiegel]

Hey....anytime....

Partner.