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SUPERCRASH IV: POSTED!

DBrunkGXW

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Is this the defacto Feedback thread? Or will you be posting a separate one?
 

Biron

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‘PRE-BRAWL’ PREVIEW SHOW!

The type of “extra” that sets NFW apart from anything around. Wildstar was easily my favorite and I hope to see him more. *cough* BRAWL *cough* It had a legit “NFL on FOX” feel to it and I have to think that’s exactly what Katz was looking for.

Beware the Future …

Paints a nice picture of the past. Not much to comment on.

Welcome to the Show!

Good setup. Like the first two segments, this is one of the things that gives you the TV experience.

THE DRS v. THE HWC

Malik came out looking good and Blaine ditching his partner was actually a surprise to me. Guess I always pictured those two as so tight, but maybe there’s a possible rift forming there. Not to mention, Dorchester and those two had their own problems before so the Dynasty seems to be fracturing. Whether anything comes from it or not, who knows.

Blaine coming back with the Oxford band-aid on his forehead was worth a laugh. He also tried to cripple Shaniqua and pushes the feud forward.

There’s a War Outside

Dane is the ultimate weasel and I really like the move to get closer to the Champ. Kelly Evans is most definitely the Whore Next Door. I see a Best-of-Five Scissoring Match coming up between her and Lana Dremire - AN NFW FIRST! I hope …

LEGION v. STALKER

This feud had not gone the way I pictured it from Jump Street and, to be honest, I never suspected Luci4 to turn on Legion. Not sure why it never crossed my mind, but that bitch is crazy. I don’t think Stalker can trust her either, but who knows. Legion finally got his hands on gold and it was taken away by the only thing he probably cared about more. Fucked up, son. Keep up the good work, fellas.


I'll post the rest later tonight.
 

User Poets

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The Preview was a nice touch. I liked the commentators talking about what was coming up, just like an actual wrestling show should do.

Matches were well written and exciting, it was a good mix of "keep the story going" and "blow things off since it's a SuperCRASH" but nothing felt forced.

The National/PURE Championship stuff was interesting, to say the least - I'm interested in seeing where things lead and how they blow off and who comes out with the Triforce. :)

Wasn't as big a fan of the Castor/Dane stuff - after everything that Castor Strife has done, he's kind of the master planner of the NFW as far as the outer reaches of craziness, I really didn't buy that it would come crashing down because he didn't read a contract. The focus in the closing moments should have been on Castor and Ryan blowing the roof off again but as I read it it seemed like all the heat got scooped by some guy on the lower card who hasn't really had any connection to either of them.

Overall it will be a fun march to the next major event.
 

LQJT86C

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Well, I'm really torn on this card. The production level was superb, had a lot of big moments involving multiple characters that set up plenty of good things down the line, i.e. all the hallmarks of what NFW does best. But ultimately, I felt that the moments where the card really needed to deliver, it fell flat.

Starting with the good...

The preview show was cool, and I hope this becomes a regular staple for all long-form cards. It's no secret I've been trying to add more elements of boxing/MMA style title-fight hype involving guys like Devin Millwood, and "YouTube media"-esque hype-men like Queens' finest Smith Wesson. Pro-wrestling used to actually do those things quite well back in the day, but after the WWF/E rose to prominence, stopped talking about titles like they were important, and stopped hyping multiple contenders. Without interesting contenders, belts aren't important, and without important belts...the league isn't important. That goes for wrestling, combat sports, and of course, leaks into our little niche world of FW. I'm doing my part to infuse more of that into NFW, and am thrilled to see things like the preview show.

The matches were ALL great. This might be one of the more action-packed NFW shows in a long time. From the segments to the matches, there was something for everybody.

Now, for the bad and the ugly...

So, lemme get this straight: for over a year, the entire league has been built around an ownership angle between Eddie Mayfield and Troy Windham's Clan, a feud which has encompassed everyone and everything, and it got blown off as a result of...Troy Windham forgot to sign some papers WHAAAAAAAAT? What do you mean he forgot to sign his papers? You mean to tell me Troy went through the trouble of bringing this league to the razor's edge, heisting himself a 50% ownership stake, and now it's GONE because he forgot to send the IRS his 1099s? Troy doesn't deserve to be the night manager at Piggly Wiggly after a slipup like that! All this time devoted to Windham drama, and Troy finally gets his comeuppance from a random security guard.

It's not unlikely that I misread something, missed a detail, and maybe this whole thing makes more sense than I'm giving it credit for. But at the very least...it was pretty damn convoluted. I wanna be fair, so if missing something here, feel free to put my ass in check (as I'm going to do to Pete when I explain my own convoluted sh*t!). The JTP/Eddie stuff didn't really end in a way that made sense either, which to be honest, wasn't entirely the fault of the booking. Things happened. Devin went AWOL, Stevens dropped out, and the whole purity/drug testing thing got a quick epilogue and forgotten about. In a hobby as come-and-go as this, it happens. But I'd hate to see that happen, again, to an even better angle.

What's the deal with the Triforce? I get that the PURE Championship was garbage and it had to be got rid of. I get that the Nat Title wasn't popular, and some of us felt like it was crap (raises hand), but I'd rather see a unification bout between the TV and Nat champions (National Television Title?), rather than combining three crappy titles to make a single slightly-less crappy title with Zelda box art on it. I fear the eventual winner of that belt will be endlessly mocked with Zelda-inspired insults. I, for one, have beaten every Zelda game, including the f*ckin Adventures of Link for NES, and have material for years that I will gladly share with future challengers of that belt. Anyway...all we did was turn back the clock a year and a half before Bloodhunt welded the PURE Title in his garage, and simply...renamed the National Title, which for all of it's alleged flaws, at least had some history behind it.

On to Impulse. DUDE...JJ Deville KILLED YOUR SON. And you're not gonna brain him with a chair because it would violate your personal ethos? I get what you were going for with this, but at the same time...the crowd would totally lose respect for Impulse at this point. This is what I would call Impulse's Michael Dukakis moment. You know, the guy who ran for President in 1988, and lost in part because when asked if he would support the death sentence for a guy who rape-killed his wife, he responded "NO". People don't like that sh*t. I'm pretty sure it's an unwritten rule that when somebody pulls a rape-job on your wife, or a kill-job on your son, YOU BRAIN THEM WITH A CHAIR. Instead he goes after Jack Bryant, who while an asshole, certainly never killed anyone's unborn son. HE KILLED YA SON, RANDALL!

Finally, we come to the main event. The match itself was excellent. A little spot-heavy for my tastes, but there's precedent for that not only in NFW but...pretty much everywhere. It reminded me of AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle, when they kept kicking out of each other's finishers. You can critique that all you want, but begrudgingly, it's exciting as hell. The Strife-Ryan series will instantly go down as a classic.

Onto the ending. Ryan hits what I thought was GAME OVER when, against the odds, Castor kicks out of a top-rope sit-out powerbomb. Time ends, and the crowd is screaming for five more minutes. HERE COMES EDDIE! YES! He's gonna pull a Gorilla Monsoon and declare that the match WILL GO ON, in overtime! Except he doesn't do that. Turns out, he showed up to collect royalties from Eric Dane. DRAW! SHOW'S OVER FOLKS, THANKS FOR WATCHING!

...

No! Are you serious right there? Reloaded X ended on a Strife-Ryan draw, to build for a blowoff on the second biggest card of the year at Supercrash IV, so we could end it with...another draw? Paul Heyman would be outraged. Are we not Heyman men, all?

I'm going to presume Brunk feels the same as me when I say: I'd rather lose than retain on a draw. If Ryan won, this portion of my feedback would be simple: "Congratulations man, it was good while it lasted." This isn't Prodigy circa-1997 where you quit every time you lose because EVERYBODY KNOWS IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS I WON! When you're talking about Dan Ryan, Impulse, Nova, Deacon, JTP, Stevens, etc. etc., and if I could be so bold to put Castor Strife in there...there is no beating those guys. Everyone is on a high level, and although we may THINK we got the better of the other, it would be damn insulting for the loser to say, "I SHOULD HAVE won". These RPs are so close, the winner probably winds up getting it on some stupid sh*t like, "I like the music he picked for his promo. WINNER!" Castor vs. Ryan, Ryan vs. Impulse, Nova vs. JTP...flip a coin, ya know? It's a judgement call at that point. Anything can happen. So with that said, even though I was hoping to win, I knew I had the thing with Dane going and had a decent feud regardless of the outcome. All you can hope for is a match that's worthy of the effort. And this match was totally worthy of the effort Brunk and I put in over two RP cycles...until the finish.

Now I kinda feel like we did all that RP for the pleasure of reading two draws. In my case, the payoff to RPing was the pleasure of reading two matches...that I half-wrote! Yes, losing IS a payoff. Maybe not a payoff that feels good, but it's closure all the same, and I feel a match like this deserved closure. From a storyline standpoint, I don't see how this outcome benefitted either man, other than it being clear you'll need C4 and a gatling gun to finish these guys after they threw the kitchen sink at each other. This also created problems for the post-match segment, which leads into Pete's gripe...

I am real, real proud of the segments we wrote. That said, it wasn't a conventional route to go, and I understand if people didn't like them. I wanted a feud that could work with or without the belt involved, with a worthy character that's been slightly under the radar, who is capable of pushing Castor more in the face direction because of his ability to garner heat in (and outside of) character. Eric Dane was a perfect fit. NOBODY expected this, and my intention was for it to start as Dane vs. Austin feud, and have it leak into Castor's world via some macho BS that escalated way, way too far. I got the idea from watching Cohen brother films, where some silly little mundane BS snowballs and enraptures the people around it until somebody's forced to detonate. Because of the ego and shortsightedness of the people around him, Castor (through little fault of his own) got dragged into a situation he is now forced to clean up. And the question is now: is Dane smarter than he looks, or did he just bite off more than he can handle? Because one thing is for sure: he just backed a very dangerous man into a corner.

I can see the similarity to the Troy-not-signing-papers thing and what I did here with Castor, but the two are essentially different. Lana slipped the contract into Castor's general paperwork, for which he doesn't have time to read as he gets ready for a big match. Basically, she cloaked it in bureaucracy so he'd sign it without reading. It happens all the time in offices. So I used it as a device to set up a much bigger angle, that will have it's own payoff.

The gripe that it stole heat from the end of the main event: I agree! But here's the problem: I wrote the segment with either a Castor wins or Castor loses scenario in mind. The segment would have worked fine in either case, but I didn't count on another draw. Whether Castor retains or loses, the match and the feud would be completely paid off - onto other business. ENTER: Eric Dane. With the match being a draw, nothing gets settled, and now Dane's post-match promo seems out of place because people still have Ryan-Strife on the brain.

Anyway, this is way, way too much analysis for such a niche hobby, but whatever...we put a lot of work into this, and analyzing it is part of the fun. I hope nobody takes this feedback to heart, because I respect everybody to the fullest and am constantly motivated to do "the next thing" here in NFW. But when I don't like something, I won't hesitate to voice my criticism. After this thread, that's the end of it and we move on.

Big props to Justin/Eric Dane for working with me on this feud. I'm excited to be doing something like this, and once again breaking open my character and putting him in uncomfortable scenarios for the sake of good-storytelling. Keep it unpredictable! Now I'm motivated to win Pete over. Hey, it's Valentine's Day! Yeah this is turning gay. Bye!
 

User Poets

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Looking forward to getting into it with you later, BFF - but one thing I want to comment on is that JJ didn't touch Rose, Bobby Jack did.

The guy whose nose was shattered into a million tiny pieces.
 

DBrunkGXW

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Billy, your feedback makes me want to untie my tubes and have your baby. It will be a Republican with a thick hybrid New York/Texas accent.
 

Biron

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It was my understanding that Troy Windham had no say in the Triple Crown Championship decision and couldn't participate in the Supercrash. I didn't see it as a blow-off or anything, but just a way for Eddie to stick it to Troy. It's just something that pushes along the story like Eddie getting run down. Have to imagine there's a plan there (given the final segment).

I personally liked the idea of unifying titles 'cause we simply have too many for our roster and impact each were, or weren't having. The National has felt flat and the PURE hadn't exactly been tearing things up (though the Legion/Stalker business injected life into it recently). As far as unifying the National and TV, that I can't see ever happening. Why would you ever dick with the history/legacy of the Television Title? It's sacred in the NFW and carries all sorts of weight on its lonesome. I think combining it with another title takes away from that, but that's me.

The Strife/Dane business is golden and I know you two will knock that out of the park. I could have done with a finish to the main, but I guess we'll see what lies ahead.

Good feedback post, Billy.
 

jediPREZ

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I would agree that it was a good feedback post by Billy.

I'd like to think that the work put into NFW generates that type of thinking and analysis, for better or worse.

Brunk -- you asked if it was the feedback thread -- DON'T RIDE THE COATTAILS SO EASY! :)
 

User Poets

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I'm waiting for Billy's rationalization of the Austin/Castor/Dane stuff - I think my main issue was that it overshadowed the World Title match, not who it specifically involved. Castor Strife vs. Dan Ryan is a main event with or without a World Title, but people will go home thinking about how that Dane guy got involved, and that's kind of a gyp.

Of course, the Windham involvement was just as disappointing, it was probably the best idea that could have happened with GG's situation but it would have been nice to see more of that. Almost like another JTP - never blew off, just sort of ran out of gas and coasted to a gradual stop. Hopefully there will be some turnaround at Brawl.

And as a final word about the almost-chairshot, yes, the human thing and the natural thing to do would have been to leave JJ laying with a smashed in face and whatnot - but that's not what I've tried to make Impulse. He's always been completely calm and completely in control of himself no matter what the situation - except when Rose is involved.

Incident #1 was when Castor was threatening her during their TV Title feud (before she was an on-air personality), and it was a brief thing that he quickly regained control of.

Incident #2 was right here - with the almost-chairshot. Remember, Impulse and Rose were both put out at the same time, almost two months ago. They've had time with each other, they've dealt with everything, and I've tried to write Impulse as barely in control - but still holding onto his integrity (since at the moment it's all he has left). He let go of his anger (JEDI! SITH!) for a few moments during Supercrash - shattering Bobby Jack's nose let a lot of it out of his system and he was able to exhale, and the series with JJ and the chair was an almost-losing-it moment as well.

I think it says more for his character that he's refusing to let JJ get inside his head like that. He got closer than anyone ever has at "breaking" Impulse, but at the last minute he failed. If the angle ended here with Impulse taking his head off with a chair, guess what - JJ wins forever.

Impulse wouldn't be able to live with himself after that, and Rose wouldn't have wanted things to end like that. If they're going to get the final win over the Windham Clan and JJ DeVille they need to do it on their terms or it'll be an empty victory.
 

Rook Black

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I was crushed that Luci4 turned on Legion. :( I'd hoped that the resilient freak/deviant in her would allow her to break the programming that Stalker must've been putting to work on her. Also, was kind of hoping for a love story to break out of there somehow, something special to set Legion apart from Stalker more than dark-gimmicks in conflict.

I liked the Dane trickery, it felt clever and slimy and should go good places. My main concern about clever tricks, is that sometimes the other guy has to be a complete moron in order for it to fly. Tricking Austin felt pretty good, since an impulsive but poorly thought out risk is very believable. Austin felt he had enough to gain to do it. Tricking the ref though kind of stretched the credibility, since the ref had nothing to gain and seemed to forget something kind of important in that scenario and then was powerless to fix it when it was made obvious? But all in all, ref characters aren't as important so that's fine too.

I didn't mind the Windham stuff, because it brought to light what I'd wanted to see for a while, JJ's management of the Clan's affairs going off the rails. That said, JJ has felt like he really blew a lot of his load on putting over Bryant and the TV title.

This is a bit out of place, but I kind of want to comment on it. I felt the main event was actually a great finish as far as non-finishes go. It tells me that it's undecided between Castor and Ryan, that it could fall in either direction depending on luck or circumstances or whatever. From a predatory aspect, with both matches being so close, the fact that Castor's been ****ed with by Dane looks like a weakness, a weakness that Ryan could exploit to take it all away. But I can recall Ryan's aggravation with JJ DeVille and how the character resents meddling, so I'm looking forward to seeing what the attitude is going forward. Anyway, the out of place bit:

Why the **** is Impulse hitting Dan Ryan with "NEENER NEENER" after the draw? (By this I refer to "Bubbles has proven he can't defeat Caster" reaction promo, not the actual in show stuff.) I know we have Impulse as the kid with integrity, but that kind of obnoxiousness just kind of seems immature. Almost like Impulse is respecting the business less and less or something. I really felt that the feeling that the draw should evoke is that whether you dislike Ryan or Castor or both, you had to respect the way they really went at it and threw everything in place. The draw isn't satisfying to either of them, and in that respect they both get some sympathy, and would be motivated even more to settle it once and for all.

I dig Eddie Mayfield's paranoia. I'm wondering about when it might get worse and he really starts losing his grip.
 

User Poets

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Why the **** is Impulse hitting Dan Ryan with "NEENER NEENER" after the draw? (By this I refer to "Bubbles has proven he can't defeat Caster" reaction promo, not the actual in show stuff.) I know we have Impulse as the kid with integrity, but that kind of obnoxiousness just kind of seems immature. Almost like Impulse is respecting the business less and less or something.

It was a shot at Dan Ryan, but only peripherally so. If you read the entire RP, that section is breaking down a list of places where Impulse thinks the Windhams have failed at what they were attempting to accomplish. Specifically, they wanted Dan Ryan to win the NFW World Title to solidify their control. Impulse beat him. The "He can't beat Castor anyways" was referencing the two draws - where neither of them beat each other - and the original World Title finals where, if Dan Ryan had beaten Impulse, he would have faced off against Castor Strife. Who he wasn't able to beat in their last two meetings.

So while it's also true that Castor hasn't been able to beat Ryan, the underlying point was more "This is what the Windhams fell short on" as opposed to "This is a shot at Dan Ryan."
 

Stalker

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My head hurts.

Edit: So i'll be posting something useful about the show tomorrow.
 

Biron

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Eric Dane Makes a Sporting Challenge

Dane goes fishing here and reels in a sucker! Well, as long he can beat Austin in a Submissions Match. I’m all for Justin and Billy doing work together and this looks promising. Will no doubt have more to say as this progresses. Dane being The Guild’s servant for a year would be another serious addition to the group.

HOLLYWOOD’S ON FIRE

God bless the asshole that is Lamont Hollywood. Mayfield, in true PRO HEEL fashion, swerves that bitch Kat Windham and Tsunami mists her! Fuckin’ awesome, man. I’m in total agreement with the National and PURE getting combined into the Triple Crown Championship. Makes sense. Looking forward to seeing that three-way dance for the new strap. Oh, I didn’t mind Mayfield giving JB props either. Think the Windhams temporarily losing power (until they get their paperwork in) is a good enough move to push the war along. Mayfield makes his return and does so in big way. Well done.

NOVA v. AKITA HOSHI v. DORCHESTER STRATTON

This was my first full-form in NFW and I thought it turned out alright. Obviously, Hoshi and Dorchester have serious issues between the two. (Oh, Rayne, too) Nova is sort of in a daze right and hopefully it showed. Good win for Nova, Hoshi looked strong, and Stratton came out fine, too. Looking forward to what happens with Nova from here; same goes for Stratton and Hoshi, too.

REJECTED

The Windham Clan being held out of the show! Ahahah! I bet that’s happened to Troy Windham at a club at some point in his B-Movie career! Funny to see JJ DeVille get in and Troy stuck in the lot. There’s definitely issues rising up amongst the Windham Clan top dogs.

Tactical Omission

Uh oh, the peons are scheming. If this goes sour, Castor is not going to be happy.

ERIC DANE v. ALEX AUSTIN

Dane gets over as the ring vet, who is pretty damn sly, and Alex Austin got some legit respect as a submission wrestler. Good match. Justin did a nice job with all the submissions and transitions. Can’t wait to see the fallout from Austin losing his “bet”. Well, as long as Castor signed the paperwork.
 

DBrunkGXW

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YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME, KATZ!!!!!

Technically.

Ok, I'll give some feedback. It's not gonna be as in-depth as Billy's, because he's been working things up and down the card, much more than I have, and I hesitate to comment on anything I haven't been involved in or followed really closely.

I'll give my negatives first, and while they seem like big negatives, keep in mind that this is with the understanding that (as a fed head myself) there could be things behind the scenes that made certain things necessary. So, I'll try not to make an ass of myself.

I groaned at the time limit draw, mostly because when they happen in big PPV-type shows, I only like them when it's godbooked and the handlers are expecting it. I've used time limit draws to put on a show and get a larger story over, but I think this works best when it's expected as part of a larger arc. In a situation like this, where Billy and I were writing as a competition and not working together behind the scenes to tell a bigger story, I do in fact agree with Billy in that I would rather lose than take a draw. I expected a firm conclusion after the first draw, so in that sense I was disappointed.

RE: The Windham stuff. The idea of using a clause in a contract, or not reading a contract fully and being screwed by it, I just really really really hate that crutch. It's just way way too simplistic, it's a writing crutch, and I'm not sure whose idea it was (and I don't want to know), but I expect better writing out of the caliber of people we have writing here. I have to think that if there was a need to end Windham control, there was a better way of doing it. This just reeks of not putting effort into a solution and just wanting to be done with it. It's just really lame.

Billy's post main event segment was awkward because it was a draw. It didn't really add anything and it took away from whatever moment was supposed to happen there. Then with the whole "Mike Randalls steps out of the shadows" thing to end the show. I'm sure it's leading to something, but I'm just kind of tired of the mysterious Mike Randalls stuff now. I get this way when I use Dan Ryan in EPW, too. I put him there to get someone over, and when I've done that, I feel like it's time to take him off of the show and put the focus on the non-staff characters again. With a match like the main event was written, I think it should have been showcased, and it should have been enough. The matchwriting quality is always so good here that a big match like that should blow the roof off of the place. I also have to question, as long as that show was, why was the main event the spot where the line was drawn and decided that the match had a time limit? It just seems weird. That show was HUGE, but the main event has to be stopped for time. I can't really remember a major PPV in the modern era that has ended with a main event draw. Maybe in the 80s with Flair/Steamboat? But even then, those were Clash shows on TBS if I'm not mistaken, and not presented as the huge show, major PPV type show that this was.

Now, the good...

The writing quality was top notch, and it ALWAYS is. I'm not gonna get into the discussion about merging titles because, like I said, I don't want to talk too much about things I've not been involved with. I would suggest though, maybe more communication with handlers and letting them in on possibilities so that you can gauge their feelings on certain things. I feel like when shows like this happen that end with a few people being disappointed, it's because they planned something out, then were blindsided with changes. They feel like they put in a lot of work and it ended up drastically different than they planned. I'm not saying that decisions should be run by handlers, but I do know that when you give handlers a sense of being part of the planning instead of just reacting to it, they tend to be happier. Even if in the end, you go with something else, there's more of an understanding of why, and they can react more naturally.

Overall, mildly irritating critiques above aside, I still enjoyed the show. The opening stuff was fantastic, and there's nothing like good writing that makes an event feel special.
 

LQJT86C

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Just a quick note: I think Supercrash is, in fact, a "Clash of the Champions" type show and not a PPV. At least I didn't see any mention of pay-per-view on the card...

NFW does like 1 PPV every 5 years, lol. Get on that Eddie! We're missing out on buyrates!
 

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