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Round 2 Bracket 2 Results Discussion

Spike Saunders

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

This is what I sent Chad... not my actual notes but those are somewhere in limbo on my laptop
===

Castor V. Strife vs. Sammy Brown - (10-0)
"Suite" Pete Whealdon vs. Jason Murray - (6-4 So so close)
Spooky Doom vs. Classy Mike C - (4-6 Also close, and I'll admit Mike had me at the start and I sung along to the theme! )
Eddie Whisky vs. Khristain Keller - (4-6 Both start's were lackluster but Keller's second overtook Whiskey's in my view)
Doc Silver vs. Anarky - (5-5 Walls of dialogue mostly. Anarky at least broke it up a few times )
"Too Cool" Chris Hopper vs. Larry Tact - (5-5 Larry started strong, Hopper failed to follow but Larry's second was not quite as good as his first and Hopper's second eclipsed. Had to make ad ecidion, taking in account the first rp'r as well, Hopper just slides by.)
Leyenda de Ocho vs. Orphan - (5-5 I am honestly torn. Both delivered well, and Ocho even did so with shrinked down rp's! Sean will kill me but based on the work, being on par in my view, and taking into consideration the first rp'r, Ocho slides by. I also hope to read more from him as his style is actually interesting)
The Sergeant vs. Derrick Allen - (7-3 Derrick had 4 days to have read and worked up a response to Sergeant and when he did finally post it hardly hit home, as if ignoring both prior rp's, the second followup was no better hoenstly. )
 

Zezu

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Really?

Because they were walls of text?

Wow.

Enlighten me Voss, what is the issue with what Spike said?

Walls of text, IMO, are a bloody nightmare. True, to decide a RP battle it's a bit low on the totem-pole, but small things could push it either way.
 

fugginVOSS

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Enlighten me Voss, what is the issue with what Spike said?

Walls of text, IMO, are a bloody nightmare. True, to decide a RP battle it's a bit low on the totem-pole, but small things could push it either way.
They can be a nightmare, that is true. If they're not entertaining. If they don't contain content. I agree completely.

As you will see with my comments you'll see I had no issue with the walls of text and I was interested to see that this was what it came down to for Spike rather than Anarky entertaining him and pulling apart Silver's words piece-by-piece or Silver completely missing mark.

Enlightened?
 

Spike Saunders

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

As these are just the nits-and-grits of what I sent chad, there isn't much to it.
Hence why I wasn't going to post... but people asked...

I've stated this before numerous times. Walls of text/dialogue are not enjoyable. Nor realistic. Would you see a wrestler in the WWE, TNA or ROH or whatever ring/backstage, and continue to talk without catching a breath? Without moving a single body part? - It just needs some breaking up from time to time. Anarky did this in his briefly but it was done .

I did enjoy both wrestlers, and love Doc Silver, but both men stepped down rather than up from Round one 'in my opinion'.

Anywho I'll avoid stating so next time and just accept PM's.
 

The Great Eye

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

So when CM Punk sat on the ramp Indian style and cut his 'shoot' promo on WWE that was unrealistic? The man didn't move hardly at all, he just sat there and buried the company for 5 minutes straight.
 

fugginVOSS

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Spike,

Wasn't asking you to not post your thoughts... it's entirely up to you whether you share them again or not. I was just interested in what you said. Not saying you were right or wrong because this game is subjective and is played by the people how they prefer to play it. I was just surprised that was the difference between those two RPs.

I furthered my comment because Ben requested to be enlightened so I explained my position further. :)
 

JLevinson

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Doc Silver vs. Anarky - (5-5 Walls of dialogue mostly. Anarky at least broke it up a few times )

Interesting take on things. I find it pretty fascinating how differently you view this than I do. For instance, to me, it seems far more likely that a wrestler on WWE would cut a promo and talk for awhile than, for instance, the camera would follow him around in his day to day life as he reunited with his long lost something-or-other.

Then again, hard to say what gritty realism is worth. I guess it just goes to show you that judges have fundamentally different ways of looking at these things.
 

Spike Saunders

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

So when CM Punk sat on the ramp Indian style and cut his 'shoot' promo on WWE that was unrealistic? The man didn't move hardly at all, he just sat there and buried the company for 5 minutes straight.
I was awaiting this comparison :)

See Punk, he paused. He had movement with his arms.

Now again, this is just.my.opinion.
This isn't something that we can portray in writing as well as it comes off on screen/in-person obviously.

Maybe the way RP feds and roleplays were in the past have changed from setting the scene, creating the dynamic, establishing and environment, and starting/continuing a story element -- to cutting long-winded shoot/non-shoot promo's?

Like I said, it's just my opinion. Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks this. It's also why I don't do RP feds anymore, although can't say I haven't been tempted with the way the tournament's busted out some really good written work. Heck Jack Harmen (Tom Ford's) series so far has been one of the more interesting things I've read! Zero... heh... his stuff's great but can't help but feel you know, give everything on his site, that this is all just part of something he's written and is pushing out now. :)


Obviously my statement struck some nerves so hopefully that clears it up a bit.
 

The Great Eye

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

I use ellipses as my pauses, I tend to think whenever my character stops talking for a second I show that by throwing a "..." into the Rp, so I felt like I did pause Doc here and there, that I did have him speaking such that he was taking a breath now and then, your view of what a pause is differs from mine.

Did anyone in the world care that CM Punk was moving his arms? Did anyone on earth talk about how his arm movements sold his promo or made it matter? His gestures did nothing to sell that promo. He sat there and talked, would somebody writing that promo in a league where you were judging have had to write arm gestures and head nods and other such things to make that promo score more points with you? Couldn't you just assume in the 'theater of the mind' that this hobby is that a person who talks would make generic gestures with their arms while doing so, do you really need that spelled out to you?

I felt Anarky Vs Doc was a coin flip, I don't care that I lost, frankly I wish Doc had been pinned and Anarky got a cleaner win over him cause if the judges said I lost that's fine, my problem is that I feel like you voted on style and not content, so many people on these forums ran to their fainting couches to scream "BILLY AND STANTON HATE NARRATIVE!!!" over the whole Blaine Vs Zero ordeal and misconstrued that our issue was with the substance of the Rp's (character building Vs match building) and not the style in which they were written.

But now it seems you voted on this match totally based on style, me and Josh both wrote a style you didn't like, but Josh was more tolerable so you gave him the nod. If that's the case, I wish I had known this before the match so I could have written in a way that was more acceptable to you, since you were one of the judges and I'd have liked to have won.
 

Showtime

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Well the judges decisions are their decisions. Even though Eddie Whisky has a much more magnificent mustache and a broader array of hats, Kellar still won. I can harp and lament that it's not fair they overlooked these key points, but in the end the result is the same.

Next time, a BUSHIER mustache. And a tri-corner hat. ULTRATITLE 2013 will be mine!
 

fugginVOSS

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Well the judges decisions are their decisions. Even though Eddie Whisky has a much more magnificent mustache and a broader array of hats, Kellar still won. I can harp and lament that it's not fair they overlooked these key points, but in the end the result is the same.

Next time, a BUSHIER mustache. And a tri-corner hat. ULTRATITLE 2013 will be mine!
If you ever figure out how to integrate said mustache into a hat you will ALWAYS win in my eyes.
 

LQJT86C

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

I was awaiting this comparison :)

See Punk, he paused. He had movement with his arms.

Now again, this is just.my.opinion.
This isn't something that we can portray in writing as well as it comes off on screen/in-person obviously.

Maybe the way RP feds and roleplays were in the past have changed from setting the scene, creating the dynamic, establishing and environment, and starting/continuing a story element -- to cutting long-winded shoot/non-shoot promo's?

Like I said, it's just my opinion. Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks this. It's also why I don't do RP feds anymore, although can't say I haven't been tempted with the way the tournament's busted out some really good written work. Heck Jack Harmen (Tom Ford's) series so far has been one of the more interesting things I've read! Zero... heh... his stuff's great but can't help but feel you know, give everything on his site, that this is all just part of something he's written and is pushing out now. :)


Obviously my statement struck some nerves so hopefully that clears it up a bit.

You mean to tell me that a bunch of paragraphs broken up with parenthetical descriptions of arm movement makes or breaks an RP for you?

(Pauses...wipes sweat off face)

I dunno man, it just kinda sounds like you didn't feel like reading a bunch of words. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions based on your "giant walls of text" comment, but that really makes it sound like you didn't pay attention to what was being written due to a daunting amount of written words. I get that there are some guys who just write repetitive dialogue ad nauseum to reach a certain point of quantity, but if the dialogue is good, what does it matter that they forgot to include a 6 word description of a thumb pointing to a chest?

Hey, look, I'm with you when it comes to supplanting line breaks with some type of description, but to make such a minute detail the focal point of your judging decision while seemingly ignoring what was actually written reeks of laziness to me.

My opinion? You didn't read it.
 

Ernie

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

I will say this. When I used to RP here, one of the constructive criticisms I would get is that I needed to have my character be more animated and do more actions during RPs. The other one was that Pat Gordon (Sr.) lacked personality. People on FW Central told me this stuff back in like 2000.

I worked on it (and sometimes I still do) and I think it has improved my RPs. Although to watch PGJr's second second round RP you might not know it. But if you read Max Hopper RPs of the past, it's a lot more apparent.

Anyway, each judge has his or her own opinions and we all know that different things can tip a match one way or another when it's a dead heat. Do I think that Doc should have to insert pauses as Doc silver paused dramatically? No. But that's my opinion and his character. Back in the day, lots of guys would just stand in front of a backdrop or in some backstage area, hands on hips, and shout out half of the one to two minute interview. I've always been more focused on what someone says than gestures, unless the action is a vital part of the RP (such as part of a story - High Flyer operating a time machine, for example).

But that's me and Dusty is Dusty. The world don't move to the beat of just one drum. What might be right for you may not be right for some. It takes different strokes to move the world.

 

DBrunkGXW

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

Yeah, so, "I don't like a wall of text" is a dumb reason, Dusty. Nothing personal. Billy's right. That just sounds lazy, like you wanted to skim the post because you didn't feel like reading it all. I'd prefer you just come right out and say "that was too much... I'm not reading that ****"

I've said that before, because it's the truth. Endless rambling without quality via one wrestler monologue can give me a headache. But if it's good, and relevant and keeps my attention, I'll read every word. If your criticism was that both guys were hard to finish because it didn't catch your attention, that's one thing. The way you put it just makes me think you didn't bother.

Not that I really care. I mean, I read the thread and voted based on the content, but it sure seems that when you lose a match you really wanted to win, you deserve more than someone telling you how much better it would have been if only you waved your arms around a little bit. The argument over styles bores me to tears, and in a competition tournament like this, with so many obviously different styles, I made the decision to judge based on content, how it kept my attention and entertained me, and not on minutiae like narrative vs. script, background setting or whether or not you posted links or embedded videos in your post. I think that serves the tournament best, and that's what I'll do.
 

TSiegel

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

For the record (and I don't know how much water this can hold or not, and frankly I don't care)....Erik Mateo went out in Round one, which is fine, because especially going up against a "Legend" character like Doc Silver...I didn't expect much more out of Mateo as it is.

But NO ONE apparently can understand him, but yet he still managed to score a point with the judges so...
 

LQJT86C

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Re: Voss' B2-R2 Judging Comments

For the record (and I don't know how much water this can hold or not, and frankly I don't care)....Erik Mateo went out in Round one, which is fine, because especially going up against a "Legend" character like Doc Silver...I didn't expect much more out of Mateo as it is.

But NO ONE apparently can understand him, but yet he still managed to score a point with the judges so...

Maybe the judge who voted Mateo speaks Mateon?
 

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